New Winexpert Kits

[bstnh1]

How do you decide it is not ready? Two weeks is very very unusual for my experience, I cover my primary pails with towels to keep out sunlight and I suppose that also makes it warmer.
I usually have a clarified kit wine ready for final processing by 4 weeks unless I'm busy and don't have time.
...
I usually use the fining agents in the kit (K + C) at the end of the second week but then I will add an additonal fining agent of my own (sparkloid) at the end of week three. Sparkloid , I think does the best job , so I use it to do some extra cleaning.
. Usually I stabilize by the end of week 2. I just stabilized a 6 week Vineco Chardonnay - that was at day 16.

I rack and transfer to secondary usually around day 7. I usually leave it in secondary for about 2 weeks. I rack again and let it sit a few more weeks to drop out more lees. I rack again and let it sit a minimum of one week just to make sure no more sediment drops out. There are times I let it sit a month or more. I don't filter my wine, so I make sure it has no sediment before I bottle. I've made about 50 kits, no filtering, and have never seen a speck of sediment in a bottle. Time and patience are two of the most ingredients in wine making.

 

[Pittsburgh127]

Everything posted on this thread seems to me to be nothing more than speculation. The only thing that will flesh this out is time. I have produced some very enjoyable wines from WE kits over several years, mostly the Eclipse kits. Probably 35 kits over the last 4 years. Most have been good, a few have been very good.

Was the point of this thread to debate the merits of kit wines or to debate the new formulation and packaging of the WE kits?

Personally, I will reserve judgment on this until I complete some kits an see how they turn out. Am I skeptical? A little bit, sure. I started 2 Private Reserve Cab kits a couple months ago and they are moving along. I just picked up 5 more Private Reserve kits to continue my evaluation. Will I quit buying WE kits in the future? Only time will tell. For now, its a big unknown.

 

[Jasienic]

Grapes-to-grapes?

Thanks for the follow up. I know everyone is io in arms about it, but kits do keep getting better every year, so it makes sense that they've learned at least a little bit since these kits were introduced several years ago.

I am sure that Andrew Peller Limited (owner of Winexpert and Vineco) learned more than a bit since these kits were introduced. The question is, did they learn to improve quality of the wine kits, or did they learn to improve corporate profits, without big regress in the quality? I do not trust corporations, which grow and grow, till there is no competition.
Until there is a definitive answer about quality of new, smaller kits, I am sticking with my reliable RJ Spagnols kits.

 

[bstnh1]

I am sure that Andrew Peller Limited (owner of Winexpert and Vineco) learned more than a bit since these kits were introduced. The question is, did they learn to improve quality of the wine kits, or did they learn to improve corporate profits, without big regress in the quality? I do not trust corporations, which grow and grow, till there is no competition.
Until there is a definitive answer about quality of new, smaller kits, I am sticking with my reliable RJ Spagnols kits.

Here's a link to a very good (and long!) article by Tim Vandergrift explaining the difference in size (volume) of wine kits. It doesn't directly address the shrunken kits, but it contains a wealth of information on the basic difference in kits of different volumes.

Understanding the Different Sizes of Wine Kits - WineMakerMag.com

 

[joeswine]

Thoughts a kit is a kit no matter what the cost it's what you make it , you first a style then ,a plan and yes they will always be a difference ,I wouldn't let cost be the whole thought it's just the beginning.
The games afoot..think outside the box

 

[heatherd]

For me, if the smaller Winexpert kits are cheaper and I can make more wine that's better it's worth a try. The pasteurization was likely the reason some of my kits always tasted a bit sweet even when fermented dry. I am going to give this a go.

 

[joeswine]

Rhe problem with making home wine and following kit direction is the knowledge that the instructions are just a guide l do all.
When these kits in 2005 we're coming out they were developed for the female taste which over all preferred back then a sweeter not a semi dry as described in the instructions.
Moving forward as a winemaker you need to adjust the process to your tastes and not to the instruct d that comes with time and practice ..

 

[heatherd]

I ordered four kits from Label Peelers. The reason is that I typically get fresh juice buckets for my whites for around $55-60 in the spring and fall - the price for these new WE kits puts them below that price point and makes it so that I can make rose and whites with the On the House line for $40-45 bucks a batch and $75-80 for the Reserve line. I got 4 kits for $200, making this much more affordable and hopefully better quality wine. I'll be looking for whether they have the sweet kit taste that some of my prior kits have had. Ordered On The House Cal Red, Cal White and Rose and the Reserve Cal Sauvignon Blanc.

 

[joeswine]

Ok , then I would ask you to start these kits with a 5.5 gallon mark ,check the SG, then do your thing

 

[Jasienic]

Here's a link to a very good (and long!) article by Tim Vandergrift explaining the difference in size (volume) of wine kits. It doesn't directly address the shrunken kits, but it contains a wealth of information on the basic difference in kits of different volumes.

Understanding the Different Sizes of Wine Kits - WineMakerMag.com

Thank you for link to interesting article. Somewhere, between the lines we can find out obvious information that concentrates are made from inferior juices, as opposed to the fresh juices. I know that fresh juices are transported frozen, which increase the cost of the wine kits. I am afraid, that the main reason for recent Winexpert/Vineco changes is improvement of corporate profits. My local wine kits store owner thinks the same. He tried to get answer from Winexpert how much (approximately) grape juice is included in each of three main products of theirs. Their ignored his questions. With that approach, he stopped selling Winexpert/Vineco in his store. RJ Spagnols is his main product for sale.
Also, one more interesting information. There is not even one producer of the concentrates in North America. All of them are imported from abroad. I know, that Chile is a big producer of grape concentrates. So, there is a big question how wine kits with California wines are made. I think, they are just tweaked, to be as similar as possible to the name of the wine on the box.

 

[Swedeman]

Also, one more interesting information. There is not even one producer of the concentrates in North America.

Really? I took me 30 seconds to find one; California Concentrate Company: Varietal Grape Concentrates

Do you have a reliable source for your claim? As you are implying that they are guilty of food fraud?

 

[Jasienic]

Really? I took me 30 seconds to find one; California Concentrate Company: Varietal Grape Concentrates

Do you have a reliable source for your claim? As you are implying that they are guilty of food fraud?

Thanks for replying.
My answer is no, and don't think so.
Looks like my source (owner of the store) is not as reliable as expected. My mistake. However, he was referring to the Canadian producers of wine kits, which he has contact with (Winexpert, Vineco, RJ Spagnols). He also was mentioning how difficult and frustrating for him is to get any detailed information from the producers about content of the wine kits.
Food fraud? I think it is exaggeration, but have some doubts. In some discussions, I was told that producers protect themselves by adding the word 'style', e.g. Amarone Style, Piesporter Style. It makes sense for me.
Off the topic, I don't know how it is in Europe, but in US and Canada food fraud is not unheard off. E.g. after testing DNA of fish filets, in some samples, even 70% were mislabeled. Always low quality fish sold as a pricey one. Sad! This results are few years old. Hopefully situation has improved.

 

[winemaker81]

Supply store owners and employees, in my experience, are not good sources of information. The owner of the store I frequent knows his stuff, and if he doesn't know something, he admits it. Other stores I've shopped at? The info received was too often not reliable.

This forum is the best source of information I've seen. There is enough fact checking that we (eventually) get accurate answers.

 

[cmason1957]

I belive they add the word STYLE to those wines to keep from violating food labeling laws (or agreements), Amarone is very specific in what grapes can be used, where they can be produced, and how they are handled. Sort of like Port must come from Portugal, Champagne from a very specific area of France.

 

[Xlev]

I found this thread from a while ago.So what is the veridict?Did Winexpert only try to increase profits with the new kits from 2020, or did they manage to make a better wine even if the volume of the kits decreased?

 

[winemaker81]

I found this thread from a while ago.So what is the veridict?Did Winexpert only try to increase profits with the new kits from 2020, or did they manage to make a better wine even if the volume of the kits decreased?

I made 2 WE kits after the reformulation, and am pleased with both. The Cabernet Sauvignon did not have kit wine taste, and is holding well at over 2 yo. The Chardonnay was very good, but started declining at 20 months, which was a disappointment. I made the wines for my son's wedding reception in October 2021, and both wines were very well received.

 

[Rocky]

I found this thread from a while ago.So what is the veridict?Did Winexpert only try to increase profits with the new kits from 2020, or did they manage to make a better wine even if the volume of the kits decreased?

I have made a number of 14 liter WineExpert kits since the change over, probably 10 or so, and I have been completely satisfied with all of them. I was skeptical in the beginning, but the proof was in the pudding. Oddly, if anything, the kits seem better than before when they were 16 liter. I have four kits in the cellar right now and I will be making them in the next couple of weeks.

 

[Swedeman]

I found this thread from a while ago.So what is the veridict?Did Winexpert only try to increase profits with the new kits from 2020, or did they manage to make a better wine even if the volume of the kits decreased?

I have done a number of their kits (classic, reserve and private reserve) and I find that they are better than before.

 

[szap]

I just recently bottled the LE Walla Walla Cab/merlot kit and it is probably the best wine I have made and I've made a bunch of them.

 

[Venatorscribe]

They are a definite improvement. That 'kit taste' has gone and overall the balance and taste of the finished wine is right up there. I tend to buy CabSav, Merlot and Malbec kits then blend.