ph testing and adjustment

[GeoS]

I'm reading a lot about adjusting the pH level of wine. Can someone help me understand why this is done and what is a good way, cheap too, to test the pH. Also, what do you use to adjust it and when?

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

 

[Turock]

Most fruits will have a PH imbalance one way or the other. Many grapes will too--especially cool weather grapes.

When working with white grapes like Niagara, we like to get the PH to around 3.2 because the acid tartness really brings out the flavor. The grapes usually have a Ph higher than the 3.2 so we use acid blend to bring the PH down. You could also use tartaric acid, but tartaric is a soft acid and doesn't give you the nice "bite" that acid blend does. We are looking for that nice sensation on the tongue of sweet and tart with this wine. So that calls for adjusting the PH where we want it.

Growing conditions and local can also influence PH so adjustments are almost always needed. The other reason to know what your PH is and adjust as needed is for knowing how much SO2 to use. A high PH wine is more suceptible to spoilage so you need far more free SO2 than a more acidic wine.

Adjusting your PH will make your wines taste better---they will be in balance. The best way to do this is to buy a PH meter--they are very reasonably priced today. You should always make PH adjustments before you start your ferment. If the PH is too high, use acid to bring it down. If it's too low, use calcium carbonate to bring it up. It's important to use pectic enzyme first day, then the next day stir well and start taking PH readings on the second day--this way some of the fruit is broken down and you'll get a more accurate reading of the must.

It mighty important to adjust highly acidic fruit, like blackberries, pre-ferment when you can use calcium carbonate. If you don't adjust it pre-ferment, you'll never be able to get it adjusted post-ferment because it's too far out of line. And you can't use alot of potassium carbonate to adjust it in the post ferment environment because potassium carbonate is only for tweaking the acid. You'll be stuck with a highly acidic blackberry that the only thing you can do with it is to blend it.

Get used to taking PH readings on everything before you start your ferments--you'll make much better wines, and avoid the headaches of having an imbalanced wine in the post ferment that you may not be able to adjust. Pre-ferment adjustments always yield a better result anyway. Even when we use Alexander's concentrate---we take PH readings.

To not know what your PH is is to just let the wine do what it wants---winemaking is all about MAKING it happen in the direction you choose. Your work at the primary is where you are designing your wine. This is where all the work should happen--not struggling post ferment.

 

[ibglowin]

I think Turock touched nicely on many of the points concerning pH. Just remember that if your making wine from a "kit" that all necessary adjustments have been made for you at the factory.

If your making wine from a pail of "fresh juice" from Chile etc chances are you may need to make some adjustments.

 

[GeoS]

Thanks, very informative.
So far I have used kits, my first two batches are tormenting now, but want to learn more and branch out.

 

[GeoS]

Haha, tourmenting was a spell check error, but may not be far from the truth!

 

[winemaker_3352]

Very nice post turock!!!

 

[GreginND]

Very nice post turock!!!

Ditto

(except the acid blend part )

 

[Turock]

Greg--one day--when I have some time--I'm gonna go on the hunt of really researching the acid blend question. Over the nearly 25 years of winemaking, we use a LOT of acid blend in wines. Some fruits are even primarily citric acid and they turn out fine. People say our wines are first class-so we're not making bad wines!! We'll have to continue this conversation after I get more info. I can even talk with one of the Labs--so we'll see what happens.

 

[GreginND]

Yes, I think your experience does say a lot. And acid blend may be just fine in most instances. I think the important thing is to recognize what wine you are making and what process you are going to do on it.

For example, why add malic acid if you are going to do MLF to reduce malic?

For other fruits citric acid is the main acid. Why would you add malic acid to that and risk potential MLF?

It is important to know why you are adding various things within the context of the wine you are going to make.

I think I am coming around to thinking that acid blend may be something that is best added to tweak the flavors after fermentation.

 

[GeoS]

If my understanding is correct, MLF happens naturally whether you want it to or not. But, it can be initiated. If you do not want MLF how do you stop it.

Can you determine of MLF has completed by having a PH above 3.3?

 

[geek]

It mighty important to adjust highly acidic fruit, like blackberries, pre-ferment when you can use calcium carbonate. If you don't adjust it pre-ferment, you'll never be able to get it adjusted post-ferment because it's too far out of line. And you can't use alot of potassium carbonate to adjust it in the post ferment environment because potassium carbonate is only for tweaking the acid. You'll be stuck with a highly acidic blackberry that the only thing you can do with it is to blend it.

Get used to taking PH readings on everything before you start your ferments--you'll make much better wines, and avoid the headaches of having an imbalanced wine in the post ferment that you may not be able to adjust. Pre-ferment adjustments always yield a better result anyway. Even when we use Alexander's concentrate---we take PH readings.

To not know what your PH is is to just let the wine do what it wants---winemaking is all about MAKING it happen in the direction you choose. Your work at the primary is where you are designing your wine. This is where all the work should happen--not struggling post ferment.

How about fruit wines you make from frozen berries (strawberry, raspberry, blackberry, etc), the juice is not really there when you pitch the yeast (just the water, sugar and yeast nutrients) as you'll be squeezing the bag daily.

 

[vernsgal]

you wouldn't pitch the yeast until your fruit has thawed and reached at least above 70F so you'll have your juice from berries

 

[GreginND]

If my understanding is correct, MLF happens naturally whether you want it to or not. But, it can be initiated. If you do not want MLF how do you stop it.

Can you determine of MLF has completed by having a PH above 3.3?

Not necessarily. Most white wines are not put through MLF. ML bacteria are sensitive to SO2. So adding sulfite after fermentation and keep the wine away from equipment (e.g. barrels) that have ML bacteria in them will do the trick.

 

[geek]

you wouldn't pitch the yeast until your fruit has thawed and reached at least above 70F so you'll have your juice from berries

right but the juice won't be there still, you get the juice while squeezing daily.
You just get some juice on day 1.

 

[Deezil]

right but the juice won't be there still, you get the juice while squeezing daily.
You just get some juice on day 1.

Take some fruit, throw it in the freezer and let it freeze.. Pull it out, let it thaw, and you'll see...

There's juice.

When you freeze the fruit, the water within the fruit obviously turns to ice.. But sometimes we forget that ice displaces more volume than the water it took to make it - so what does this mean for our fruit in the must? The ice creates miniscule tears within the entirety of the fruit, and as the temperature rieses, the juice within the fruit leaks out of all these holes.

Then squeeze it really good, and you'll find that whats left in your hand is so pulpy that it sticks together from the force you used to squeeze it, and it wont really drip..

What you're squeezing out daily, is what the pulp has soaked up, not necessarily the remnants of juice trapped within the fruit still. The alcohol being created and the yeast doing the work permeate the pulp, extracting compounds that we'd lose out on otherwise

 

[Turock]

And while the fruit is thawing, you toss in some pectic enzyme to break down the fruit further. By the time the fruit is thawed, you have lots of juice for testing PH and setting the brix. Don't forget--you can draw off the juice,at this point, into a cylinder so you can float your hydrometer to test SG---or just use a refractometer which only takes one drop of juice.

Try freezing fruit if you haven't done it. You'll be surprised how much juice you have.

 

[Turock]

GeoS---In 24 years of winemaking, we only had one spontainious MLF. It's not something that happens often. I think you have to keep in mind your proper doseage of meta on that first day of the crush. I know some winemakers--even one professional that uses no meta on the crush. Most of the time, this is OK but you risk biological growth which can stall a ferment, plus risk an unwanted MLF.

Also, when we do MLF's we keep the bacteria away from the winery because you risk having the MLB becoming a resident in the winery. That would be really bad.

Don't forget that you can use lysozyme to prevent unwanted MLF's if you think the risk is present.

Greg----I did some reading on acid blend in the ferment. The risk seems to be acetic acid formation. As the article said, it doesn't always happen for sure. It's a possibility and many winemakers don't want the risk. So that is why tartaric acid is always the recommendation. We only use acid blend on the Niagara. Been doing it for 23 years and never had a problem. It really does an awesome job on that Niagara----maybe that's why our Niagara wine tastes like no other!! Everyone tells us it is the best Niagara they ever had--even from the local wineries.

I agree with you that it might be good post ferment but I've never used it that way because we always adjust and balance our musts at the primary. We don't do adjustments post ferment.

 

[geek]

Also, when we do MLF's we keep the bacteria away from the winery because you risk having the MLB becoming a resident in the winery. That would be really bad.

Turock, for us small home wine makers, like me, that make our wines in the basement and just have a few carboys, few plastic pail fermenters, the allinone wine pump and a few other small items.....

What would you recommend when doing the MLF?

 

[GeoS]

Turock, for us small home wine makers, like me, that make our wines in the basement and just have a few carboys, few plastic pail fermenters, the allinone wine pump and a few other small items.....

What would you recommend when doing the MLF?

My question exactly?

I am reading you should do MLF on certain wines and can inoculate the wine to start this, but there really is no way to tell if MLF is really happening or if its finished. Unless you have the expensive equipment or want to send your wine to a lab.

I am new to this and only ever have two or three carboys going at a time.

 

[geek]

I will do it first time and I will be ok.
I'm curious about Turock's post regarding performing MLF out of the winery.