Pinot Noir Words of Wisdom

[Johnd]

Looks beautiful!

 

[stickman]

I moved ahead with the Pinot and Sangiovese post ML racking. I used a Brute as a temporary holding vessel while I cleaned the Flex tank. With the Pinot I didn't want to do that additional handling, so I went from tank to tank. I added tartaric acid at .5g/L to get the pH of the Sangiovese down to 3.70. Sulfite was added to both batches at 50ppm for an initial dose, I'll probably check and adjust in a week. So far the taste and aromas are nice, the Sangiovese has a slight coffee aroma at this point, smooth and nothing offensive.

 

[stickman]

Just updating, I did some tasting and final adjustment of the PH today, I added another .5g/l tartaric acid to the Sangiovese for a total of 1g/l, and then added 1g/l tartaric to the Pinot. The taste is good so far, still leesy with some fruit showing through, nothing unusual. I was too lazy to do TA's, the PH went up significantly from the start. I attached a juice panel I received from the supplier for the Sangiovese, it is interesting to see the ratio of malic to tartaric acid, I suppose it gives you some idea of what is lost during ML conversion.

Pinot Noir

Brix 23.6, TA 8.1 g/l, PH 3.32, After AF PH 3.52, After ML PH 3.70, adjusted final PH 3.55

Sangiovese/Syrah co-ferment

Sangiovese Brix 23.2, TA 7.65, PH 3.32
Syrah Brix 26.5, TA 5.60, PH 3.88
Blend Brix 23.9, TA 7.20, PH 3.59, After AF PH 3.64, After ML PH 3.76, adj final PH 3.60

 

[stickman]

Re-incorporating the lees back into my friends 2016 Amador Sangiovese. The wine crushed Oct 1st, fermented, was racked twice after pressing, and then racked and sulfited after ML completion Nov 3rd. It has been tank aged on 5 French oak staves since then. Did some tasting and put the reserved lees back in today. So far so good, slight grippy oak tannins, but hopefully the lees will smooth everything together.

 

[stickman]

Updating this thread; I decided to do some so2 testing, the following wines are in the cellar and the current numbers are:

Sonoma Sangiovese/Syrah blend, 36ppm free so2, 3.61 pH, added 10ppm so2 today
Sonoma Pinot Noir, 33ppm Free so2, 3.55 pH, added 10ppm so2
Amador Sangiovese, 20ppm free so2, 3.72 pH, added 20ppm so2

I included a couple photos, or it didn't happen, right?

 

[JohnT]

How do you keep that wood floor so clean?? I have a concrete floor in mine that I pressure wash every 6 months and mine still looks bad.

 

[stickman]

That floor is 3/4" hardwood that has a factory finish, so it is very durable. I've had plenty of spills and overflows etc., but they are easy to clean if you get to them quickly. The seams between the boards are the weak point, so a floor that was finished in place may be better in that respect. When I built the cellar, I had no intent of using those materials, that was my Wife's idea. If left to me, it would have been something simple and functional, like 4" styrofoam walls and ceiling on a sealed concrete floor; who am I to complain?

 

[Johnd]

That floor is 3/4" hardwood that has a factory finish, so it is very durable. I've had plenty of spills and overflows etc., but they are easy to clean if you get to them quickly. The seams between the boards are the weak point, so a floor that was finished in place may be better in that respect. When I built the cellar, I had no intent of using those materials, that was my Wife's idea. If left to me, it would have been something simple and functional, like 4" styrofoam walls and ceiling on a sealed concrete floor; who am I to complain?

I don't know, I kinda like the floor. I'm sure the seams can be a pain to clean, but your whole area is neat, clean, squared away, looks really good.........

 

[cgallamo]

Glad you updated the post. I was missing in action for a few months and had not seen it. Very cool to see your entire process, equipment, and methodology.

 

[JohnT]

I like the floor also. It looks WAY nicer than my sad, tired old concrete slab. It is just that it looks so neat and clean.....

 

[stickman]

I have only made three kits in 27 years of wine-making, but I couldn't resist starting a Pinot Noir Kit using some skins reserved frozen from the batch above, interestingly the kit came with RC212 rather than the typical EC1118. It will be interesting to taste the kit vs the frozen must. I still have over a hundred gallons of various wines yet to bottle, my share is only about 40gal.

 

[balatonwine]

I am only commenting on this now as I just read this tread (only joined this forum a few months ago) and saw there was no comment on this issue specifically:

I have read a lot of information on the web, and the general consensus is that this grape is finicky to grow

I grow Pino Noir. I have found it not difficult to grow at all. In fact, it is one of the easiest grapes to grow.

Pinot Noir was actually one of the varieties I selected specifically to be a challenge, and it has been the least challenging grape variety to grow for me. No more difficult than Pinot Gris, which I have a lot of (which makes sense, since these are basically the same grape with just a few minor genetic differences).

Yes, this grape has about half the yield of my Welschriesling / Italian Riesling, but that is again no different from my Pinot Gris. And that is just the nature of the grape, and does not make it perse "difficult". And it is actually, with Pinot Gris, the most disease free of the varieties I grow. For example, my Gewürztraminer and Welschriesling are far more susceptible to disease like powdery mildew or bunch rot than either Pinot. My Turán is more susceptible to frost than either Pinot (in fact, of the two, my Pinot Gris has had more frost damage than the Pinot Noir, and even the frost damage on all but very young vines of Pinot Gris was negligible).

The grape does have more narrow environmental requirements than other grapes, but that does not make it a "difficult" plant. The only difficulty there arises when a person tries to force it to grow in environments the grape is not suited for. People then wrongly blame the vine. But really, it is the person who is being difficult by not realizing this variety simply has more environmental limitations than other grape varieties.

and convert to wine.

No problem at all to convert into wine in general. But, "therein lies the rub" (Hamlet, Act 3, scene 1). What type of wine? A lot of Pinot Noir is used to make Champaign or sparkling wine. Some is used to make a rosé wine (which is what I do). My rosés are easy to make. The "difficulty" in wine making is trying to make a red wine. That is "the rub". This grape's thin skin (not a thick skin as incorrectly stated) and chemical composition requires special treatment (i.e. extended maceration, etc), as is it's tendency to greatly express the local terroir; ergo, no two red wines from Pinot Noir from different locations will be the same. That makes it "difficult" to make a wine for the mass market which expects a "consistent" wine. But makes it a wonderful grape to express local terroir. So it really is not "that" difficult, just not "consistent" (again, when grown appropriately within its environmental limits). But, quite frankly, I like that most about Pinot Noir: Every one is unique, making it one of the least boring read wine on the planet.

 

[stickman]

Just an update; had some time to do so2 testing, the following wines are in the cellar and the current numbers are:

Sonoma Sangiovese/Syrah blend, Tank 30ppm free so2, 3.60 pH, nothing added today
Sonoma Pinot Noir, Tank 30ppm Free so2, 3.53 pH, nothing added today
Sonoma Pinot Noir, 6gal carboy 32ppm Free so2, 3.55 pH, nothing added today
Amador Sangiovese, 22.7ppm free so2, 3.70 pH, added 17.6ppm so2 today

The owner of the Amador Sangiovese would like to bottle in the next couple of months, so this may be the last sulfite addition, but I'll check again pre-bottling to be sure it is in a reasonable range once it has settled and been racked. The wine at this point is not a fruit bomb, but is medium bodied with nice complex berry fruit and oak.

The photos are of the Amador Sangiovese, dropping in a 2gr so2 tablet, effervescence as the tablet dissolves while sinking to the bottom of the tank, sample before stirring the lees, after stirring the lees, on the right is my 2015 Sonoma Cabernet used as top up, which is showing nice aromatics, but is still tightly wrapped. The Cabernet is massive compared to the Sangiovese.

Boy I'm getting old, my hand has alligator skin, I guess I need to drink more wine to increase my anti-oxidant intake.

 

[ceeaton]

Yea, don't like the skin on my hands. Starting to remind me of my grandpa's and I'm only 54+ yrs old. More red wine sounds like the ticket!

I'll implement a new wine infusion program and get back to you...I'm sure the results will be positive in nature.

 

[sour_grapes]

Yea, don't like the skin on my hands. Starting to remind me of my grandpa's and I'm only 54+ yrs old. More red wine sounds like the ticket!

I'll implement a new wine infusion program and get back to you...I'm sure the results will be positive in nature.

Yeah... they'll seem better for about 6 hours! After that, the effect seems to fade...

 

[Boatboy24]

I always thought the alligator issue was due to too much wine and skin dehydration. But what do I know. I'll test the antioxidant theory with you, though I think liver damage might just outweigh the skin benefits.

 

[stickman]

Just doing some quality control tasting with my 2016 Sonoma Carneros Pinot Noir currently in a flex tank, on the right is a 2014 Lamelson Pinot Thea's Selection from Willamette Valley. Not too much difference in appearance. They are both nice, however the Lamelson needed about 5 to 10 minutes to blow off a papery alcoholic aroma, I wasn't impressed, probably a little co2, but afterwords nice berry aromas and flavors are showing. I actually prefer the Carneros Pinot at this point, it is showing brilliant raspberry aromas and flavors with greater depth; makes me think of bottling it right now, but I'll hold off for several more months. It's hard to believe it will get any better, I've been doing this for a long time and it still makes me a little nervous until it's in the bottle.

Just for fun I checked the pH on both; Lamelson 3.36, Carneros 3.51.

 

[mainshipfred]

Yea, don't like the skin on my hands. Starting to remind me of my grandpa's and I'm only 54+ yrs old. More red wine sounds like the ticket!

I'm 54+ as well. The question is +what.

 

[ibglowin]

OK so why do a side by side taste test on an Oregon PN vs a California PN? They taste nothing alike!

 

[stickman]

OK so why do a side by side taste test on an Oregon PN vs a California PN? They taste nothing alike!

Mike, you're right, but my intent was really to taste what I had in the tank. The Willamette Pinot was just what I had in the cellar and thought I would open and use it for top-up. I figured I might as well do a comparison since the bottle was open, didn't want to waste..........