Planning for first from grapes wine

[mainshipfred]

What’s the difference? Besides the smallest order of vp41 is $250

I just checked their website, they do have it, 2.5 grams packs for $25 good for 66 gallons. VP41 has higher tolerances and probably finishes quicker. I prefer the MBR 31 simply because it is slower and feel it benefits somehow. I don't have enough batches under my belt to say for sure though.

 

[hawkwing]

You can get small quantities of VP41 from Morewinemaking: Dry Malolactic Bacteria - VP41 (2.5 g) | MoreWine . It's $39.

CH16 is pretty sure-fire: Dry Malolactic Bacteria - Viniflora CH16 | MoreWine

Oh it’s back in stock. Not sure what the transit time is to Canada. How important is adding the nutrients for it?or should they grapes have enough?

 

[hawkwing]

I was going to get Lallzyme EX-V straight from them in Canada. Thought I’d try and avoid buying from multiple places.

Should I consider a yeast besides RC-212?

 

[crushday]

I was going to get Lallzyme EX-V straight from them in Canada. Thought I’d try and avoid buying from multiple places.

Should I consider a yeast besides RC-212?

212 can be tough to work with and often gets stressed and omits H2S - that rotten egg smell - BAD, BAD, BAD!

Bosa in BC sells small quantities of Avante - use that and you’ll have no problems typically.

https://ecom.bosagrape.com/yeast-renaissance-avante-500g.html

 

[hawkwing]

212 can be tough to work with and often gets stressed and omits H2S - that rotten egg smell - BAD, BAD, BAD!

Bosa in BC sells small quantities of Avante - use that and you’ll have no problems typically.

https://ecom.bosagrape.com/yeast-renaissance-avante-500g.html

Ok thanks. What about the Wyeast offerings including the malolactic cultures?

 

[tullamore]

Ok thanks. What about the Wyeast offerings including the malolactic cultures?

go to Watsns.ca -
Niagara on the lake - i buy my supplies from him - has a lot links all info u need about yeats, etc...

 

[hawkwing]

go to Watsns.ca -
Niagara on the lake - i buy my supplies from him - has a lot links all info u need about yeats, etc...

I had to google it. It's actually Watsons.ca.

They have small quantities of color pro and color x mixed. Which enzyme is best? The mix or something like EX-V?

 

[hawkwing]

go to Watsns.ca -
Niagara on the lake - i buy my supplies from him - has a lot links all info u need about yeats, etc...

They also have CH16 but in a larger quantity. Seems that one is recommended by several people. So many options and no idea if or how much it matters.

 

[winemaker81]

They have small quantities of color pro and color x mixed. Which enzyme is best? The mix or something like EX-V?

I've been using ColorPro, as from the description it does what several other enzymes do. I've been very pleased with the results.

I suggest you lookup the vendor descriptions of the products and use that to decide what appears best for you.

 

[hawkwing]

I've been using ColorPro, as from the description it does what several other enzymes do. I've been very pleased with the results.

I suggest you lookup the vendor descriptions of the products and use that to decide what appears best for you.

They sell a mix of Color Pro and Color X. Not sure why it's mixed or how that affects things. X is describes as more course extraction. I'm probably overthinking it and will be happy with any of these choices. Might just have to age longer with certain choices.

 

[winemaker81]

They sell a mix of Color Pro and Color X. Not sure why it's mixed or how that affects things. X is describes as more course extraction. I'm probably overthinking it and will be happy with any of these choices. Might just have to age longer with certain choices.

Maceration enzymes increase extraction of various constituents from the grapes by breaking down various components in the grapes, in essence setting various things free, moreso than normally released during fermentation. Tannin additives, including toasted oak, are involved in a chemical process where oak tannin drops instead of grape tannin (there are numerous types of tannin, all with different properties). This gets into bio-chemistry that I understand at the 1,000 foot (304.8 m) level, but not in more detail without a lot of intensive reading.

From what I read, Color X makes a longer aging wine due to the tannins it extracts. Personally, I'm not interested, as the ColorPro helped me produce wines where some are nice at 2 years while others will need 3 years. This works for me. YMMV

 

[hawkwing]

Maceration enzymes increase extraction of various constituents from the grapes by breaking down various components in the grapes, in essence setting various things free, moreso than normally released during fermentation. Tannin additives, including toasted oak, are involved in a chemical process where oak tannin drops instead of grape tannin (there are numerous types of tannin, all with different properties). This gets into bio-chemistry that I understand at the 1,000 foot (304.8 m) level, but not in more detail without a lot of intensive reading.

From what I read, Color X makes a longer aging wine due to the tannins it extracts. Personally, I'm not interested, as the ColorPro helped me produce wines where some are nice at 2 years while others will need 3 years. This works for me. YMMV

I read that too. I'm probably going to get EX-V as I want a full body red, I can get it from the same place thus less shipping, and it's not mixed with another product, as well as it has a longer shelf life and doesn't require refrigeration.

 

[hawkwing]

Well I missed the first order of grapes from the one supplier. He called and said they will be in on Sunday and he has 4 Zinfandel, 2 cab, and 2 of something that has a lot of color and starts with an A. His price was just under $50 a case.

If I order from the other place they would be $65 for cab and $70 for Zinfandel. They'd be here on the 18th or 19th.

I was told that they are more ripe by the old gentleman I talked to who's bought from both. Is it worth grabbing the cheaper grapes that were extra or wait and get the riper grapes for a bit more money? I was going to get 6 to 12 cases possibly but I need to go back and read what others have said for amounts. They guy with the cheaper grapes told me 5 cases would make two carboys. I just wanted a little extra for top up.

 

[hawkwing]

If I were to pickup the 4 Zinfandel and 2 Cabernet should I also get the 2 Alicante?

Also if I were to get more from the other supplier does anyone know why Zinfandel are $5 more than Cabernet Sauvignon per lug? I’m undecided which if those two I will get if I get more but I have to order by noon tomorrow. But I’ve always though the Cabernet is supposed to cost more and it’s definitely not old vine. I’m leaning to the Cabernet for a dry red but to Zinfandel if I want to make port.

 

[winemaker81]

If I were to pickup the 4 Zinfandel and 2 Cabernet should I also get the 2 Alicante?

There is no way to provide good advice, as what to buy depends on what you want.

Grape prices are variable, depending a lot on source. Musto has a ~$18 variance between their to end and bottom end CS.

The last few years I have been making blends, but that is simply one option. What do you like? Do you want to stay in your comfort range, or do you want to experiment?

 

[hawkwing]

There is no way to provide good advice, as what to buy depends on what you want.

Grape prices are variable, depending a lot on source. Musto has a ~$18 variance between their to end and bottom end CS.

The last few years I have been making blends, but that is simply one option. What do you like? Do you want to stay in your comfort range, or do you want to experiment?

I know that is the truth. I like port. I like reds mostly and like cab an zin. Although I know blends are where it’s at. I’d probably blend after fermentation. Unfortunately I’m forced to buy my grapes blindly without any idea of quality. So are the Zinfandel better because of price no idea. I’m probably leaning to Cabernet but possibly something else for blending. The Zinfandel possibly for port. Merlot is another option. But I’ve purchased the Avante yeast and the ex-v enzymes so I’m probably beat to stick with Cabernet or Zinfandel. The Alicante might be good to blend for color. Since it’s my first year it’s hard to decide. Next year I’ll have a reference point. Maybe the selection is good to get some reference point and experience.

 

[Jim Welch]

I think most everyone buys their grapes blind to an extent, every crop is different so even if one buys the exact same variety from the same vineyard this years crop may or may not be like last years.
As far as pricing, in the end one can only sell something for what another is willing to pay except of course for absolute necessities.
I am also buying grapes for the first time this year through G. Pinto in NJ. I got their price list where they list 9 different vineyards. Those that have Cab Sauv are in the mid $50s to mid $60s for a 36 Lb lug. One vineyard that list nothing but Cab Sauv is pricing their 36 Lb lugs at $115 each! These grapes MUST be in high demand or they simply wouldn't sell otherwise. So most of the time things are priced according to the demand there is for them and perhaps that is what you are seeing.
I ordered 14 lugs yesterday, all from the same vineyard since I have to start somewhere right? As you mention @hawkwing, as a reference point and experience. FWIW, I ordered 6 Merlot, 3 Syrah, 3 Zin, and 4 Petite Syrah

 

[winemaker81]

So are the Zinfandel better because of price no idea.

Nope. CS is typically more in demand, and gets a correspondingly higher price. Price can be an indicator within a given varietal, but it's not a guarantee.

As @Jim Welch's said, most of us are flying blind, and those that aren't, are dependent upon Mother Nature and Dionysus to provide good grapes (good tending and care matter greatly, but Mother Nature has the final say).

Post-fermentation blending is probably the best course of action, but it requires enough space to have carboys (or barrels) of each wine. That doesn't work for everyone.

My 2020's are field blends -- I researched grape varieties and went with a Bordeaux bend and a Bordeaux blend + Zinfandel. I knew a Merlot-heavy Bordeaux blend would work (hundreds of years of history behind this decision) and tasted a Bordeaux-style blend + Zinfandel and liked it. The latter had a higher element of risk, but it worked out.

This year's plan is different -- the plan is an 8 lug batch each of Tempranillo and Grenache, and a smaller batch containing 1 lug each Syrah, Mourvedre, and Petit Verdot. After bulk aging, the blend will be blended into each of the Tempranillo and Grenache, according to taste. This mixes the blend types -- doing post-aging blending with a field blend.

However, it fits my space and I have confidence that the final results will be good.

If you're buying red Vinifera, you can make something you like. Don't over-think this, as it will drive you insane. Make a selection based upon research and plow forward!

 

[hawkwing]

I’m wanting to get a few kinds but now I’m thinking if I get one or two lugs of one kinds to try I’m going to run into storage issues with part full carboys. Hmm….lol

 

[winemaker81]

I’m wanting to get a few kinds but now I’m thinking if I get one or two lugs of one kinds to try I’m going to run into storage issues with part full carboys. Hmm….lol

It takes about 2.5 lugs to fill a 19 liter carboy, after clearing. Figure out how many carboys you want to fill and buy 3 lugs of each varietal -- fill the carboys with each varietal, and take the remainders and make a Frankenwine. This provides you experimentation with varietals and a catchall to handle excess. Post-aging, blend in small batches to produce a wider variety (more experimentation), and don't forget the Frankenwine may also be good for blending results.