RJ Spagnols Riesling Tweak Suggestions

[joeswine]

can't post pics???/

 

[Trick]

when using chocolates enhance the best grade powered chocolate you can affords also add 1 tablespoon or teaspoon ( depending on your volume )of instant coffee to boost the aroma over time (cool trick) time.

Good to know that. About to rack tomorrow. Should it be too late to try this in the current batch (in secondary)?. How about dark roast ground coffee bean? Big fun of the dark roasted coffee smell. Not sure if it matches the Cab/Merlot profile.

 

[tjgaul]

How long did it take to ferment at this lower temperature?

It took about 45 days to get down to SG .994. I fermented this in a 6.5 gal glass carboy and topped off with CO2 (I bought a 40LB cannister and regulator for extended macerations) in the later stages. I had been researching Rieslings made in the Finger Lakes and found that some fermentations took 54 days or more. I figured 45 days was long enough with non-commercial equipment.

 

[Tetrarch]

It took about 45 days to get down to SG .994. I fermented this in a 6.5 gal glass carboy and topped off with CO2 (I bought a 40LB cannister and regulator for extended macerations) in the later stages. I had been researching Rieslings made in the Finger Lakes and found that some fermentations took 54 days or more. I figured 45 days was long enough with non-commercial equipment.

Did you notice any differences with the added time?

 

[tjgaul]

I can't say yes with great surety, but I think the slow and cold batch is better at 6 months than the earlier batch. The first batch definitely fermented fast and warm and had an odd taste at first. The early batch was also bottled right away and, thus, it had 100% of it's aging in the bottle. The 2nd batch was much more Riesling-like as soon as it cleared and tasted good at the time of bottling after 6 months of bulk aging. It's my opinion that most whites, especially Riesling, benefit from a cooler and slower fermentation. I would target a start point of about 62-65 for any white other than the quickie 10L kits with F-pacs like the Island Mist kits. And, if I had planned far enough in advance of summer, I would likely ferment the Island Mist kits at a lower temperature too.

The slow & cool batch has been on the shelf for about 6 weeks so it's just about time to start sampling.

 

[Elizajean]

I can't say yes with great surety, but I think the slow and cold batch is better at 6 months than the earlier batch. The first batch definitely fermented fast and warm and had an odd taste at first. The early batch was also bottled right away and, thus, it had 100% of it's aging in the bottle. The 2nd batch was much more Riesling-like as soon as it cleared and tasted good at the time of bottling after 6 months of bulk aging. It's my opinion that most whites, especially Riesling, benefit from a cooler and slower fermentation. I would target a start point of about 62-65 for any white other than the quickie 10L kits with F-pacs like the Island Mist kits. And, if I had planned far enough in advance of summer, I would likely ferment the Island Mist kits at a lower temperature too.

The slow & cool batch has been on the shelf for about 6 weeks so it's just about time to start sampling.

When talking about "cool" fermenting...are you referring to the temps in the room, or the temps of the fermenting must? It sounds like ambient temperature in the room, but I am not quite certain. Thank you

 

[tjgaul]

When talking about "cool" fermenting...are you referring to the temps in the room, or the temps of the fermenting must? It sounds like ambient temperature in the room, but I am not quite certain. Thank you

Both the room and the must. I'll go back and check my notes, but I recall starting it at about 67 and it dropped down into the low 60's the first night. I was fermenting in my basement in early spring. I have an old house with a drafty basement which can be quite cool in the winter. I did not add ice blocks or use cooling jackets. With my ambient temperature generally in the 60-65 range I simply ferment whites unadulterated and add jackets and/or heat mats to my reds.

Since there seems to be interest in this thread I'll try to post my notes on this batch soon.

 

[tjgaul]

Here's the true detail on the cool ferment Riesling, now that I have my notes in hand. Looks like the actual fermentation period was only 33 days, but still much longer than a normal kit ferment.

4-9-17 Started in 6.5 gal glass carboy using K1-V1116 yeast + 1 tsp yeast nutrient. Yeast pitched dry in 66 degree must at SG 1.084. Moved carboy to basement with no jacket or heat additions.

4-10 evening - must at 54 degrees
4-13 58 degrees with slow, but steady bubbling
4-17 added zest of 1 grapefruit
4-22 SG 1.020 noted very nice aroma
4-28 SG 1.002
5-4 SG .998 - racked to 6 gal carboy to reduce headspace - taste was crisp and tart
5-13 racked, de-gassed and added k-meta and clarifiers SG .998
5-15 clearing nicely
5-29 racked to clean 6 gal carboy
6-25 SG still at .998- noted good flavor, but kit taste detectable
7-8 racked again - noted taste improvement, but still a bit of a harsh bite on the back end
10-9 filtered and bottled

When the initial temp dropped well below 60 I had my concerns, but the airlock kept showing signs of action so I just let it go. I have been happy with the K1-V1116 when using on white wines. It did not take this quite as dry as I had hoped, but it was not a big concern for me since I had not intention of back sweetening this batch. A final SG of .998 was acceptable.

 

[colorado_wade]

I know this kit has been done for quite a while, but I'm curious how ofter, if at all, did you stir your must during primary?

 

[tjgaul]

During primary I hardly stirred at all. Maybe once on day 2 or 3 and then I just left it sit.

 

[colorado_wade]

Okay, thank you. That's what I figured. I didn't think there is really much need to stir a white very often during primary.

 

[tjgaul]

Now that this wine is over a year old I can hardly detect the kit taste and this is becoming one of our "go to" wines for the warmer weather. The flavor is somewhat mild, especially when tasted side by side against the local Rieslings (Finger Lakes), but it's pleasing with no harsh notes left. We go back and forth between this and Gewurztraminer.

 

[skyfire322]

Now that this wine is over a year old I can hardly detect the kit taste and this is becoming one of our "go to" wines for the warmer weather. The flavor is somewhat mild, especially when tasted side by side against the local Rieslings (Finger Lakes), but it's pleasing with no harsh notes left. We go back and forth between this and Gewurztraminer.

That's good to know! I'm bottling my batch in about two weeks (been bulk aging for four months) and as of right now, it's got a pretty heavy kit taste.

 

[colorado_wade]

Yes, thanks for that information. My En Primeur Riesling/Gewurztraminer has been in primary for 4 days now. Would you guys recommend adding grapefruit rind?

 

[tjgaul]

A little zest from either grapefruit or lemon can brighten the wine up. I wouldn't go overboard on additions with an En Primeur kit since they are usually very well balanced on their own. And definitely avoid getting into the pith (white meaty layer) beneath the zest. I am big on adding zest to most white wines, but that's my taste and yours might not be similar.

 

[colorado_wade]

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I think I'm going to leave this one as-is, and let it be the benchmark to compare to for any future versions of this kit that I tweak.

 

[colorado_wade]

Just out of curiosity, did you leave the sorbate out? I always leave it out of reds, but wasn't sure if I should leave it out of an off-dry white or not.

 

[skyfire322]

Just out of curiosity, did you leave the sorbate out? I always leave it out of reds, but wasn't sure if I should leave it out of an off-dry white or not.

Raising this dead post, lol. I did end up leaving the sorbate out and didn't notice any side effects.

Now that this wine is over a year old I can hardly detect the kit taste and this is becoming one of our "go to" wines for the warmer weather. The flavor is somewhat mild, especially when tasted side by side against the local Rieslings (Finger Lakes), but it's pleasing with no harsh notes left. We go back and forth between this and Gewurztraminer.

I just bottled it recently, and was pleasantly surprised that I could hardly detect the kit taste! I had my girlfriend hide the cases just so I'm not tempted to open any of them up You are right though about it being light, though. I went to Seneca Lake a few weeks ago and most of the Rieslings had a very distinct (and pleasing) taste.