Second Year of Plantation Starting. How to prune?? Help please!

[grapeman]

That is exactly what you do with them. That is not a large gap at all. The one shoot forms one side and the other shoot forms the other side.

 

[Masbustelo]

I will let others speak to the pruning. Bu I wanted to say that some of the yellowing you are observing might be related to some of the vines roots having been flooded.

 

[daniyalsm]

@grapeman Thank you very much sir! I didn't know that

@masbustelo Hmmm. We use flood irrigation as for the grapevines as our drip system is currently dysfunctional. Watering is done about once every 5 days during May and June due to high temperatures (upto 115 F). The soil is sandly loam I believe and doesn't retain water for too long.
I am getting proper soil analysis done. I believe it is not the perfect soil for grapes. The pH is a little over 8 and the organic content is less than 0.4%. I will start amending the soil once I get the final reports.

Also do you have any input on the following pictures. The first two pictures are Thompson Seedless while 3 and 4 are another variety (I believe Flame Seedless). All plants were planted as 1 year old plants in February 2015. Almost 90% of the Thompsons that survived are pretty big as you can see. However only maybe 20% of the Flame Seedless plants are big. The rest are still very small even though they are now 2.5 years old. Is there any possible explanation that comes to mind?

Also the Thompson in the last picture is only about 4 feet tall. It had termite dirt or whatever it is called on it. Can it be that the termites have eaten it from the inside? I have gotten chloropyrifos applied to kill them.

 

[daniyalsm]

The following picture is of a grape I planted a year before all the rest. It was not trained properly, however it bore a lot of fruit this year (probably over-bore). Can anyone let me know why some of grapes in the bunches have dried up and browned. Is this a disease or is it physical damage.

In the following picture, have I labelled 1 and 2 as the shoots to keep right? Or should one of the shoot to keep be X. X is growing from the same area as number 1 is.

Another very important question is that once I start putting 1 and 2 on the wire, should I remove all the other shoots and growth right now or do I wait till December in the winters.

Also any clue why this vine has dried up from the top, but begun sprouting again from the bottom? How do we proceed with such cases?

@grapeman I hope my questions do not bother you.

 

[grapeman]

You may need to hire a grape growing consultant since you have so many questions all the time. We are trying to answer questions here from a picture or two which is not always accurate. The forum is intended to be a place where you can get some advice occasionally to help out not an all inclusive how to grow guide.

I will say that the dried up grapes can be caused by a number of diseases but most commonly by black rot (needs to be controlled with a fungicide before you see it in the grapes). If it is black rot they will shrivel and eventually get all wrinkly and almost black in color. They will hang on the vine all year. All infected clusters need to be pruned off to help reduce the source of future infection. It can lead to total crop loss.

1 and 2 are probably the best choice to leave since the other one has a severe angle to the first and could split the vine when you try to bend it.

The dead looking vine dies because of some vascular failure. It could be cause by a number of things including some disease. We aren't familiar with all disease you may have there. That is why I suggest a consultant. Once located and hired they can provide you with appropriate site specific information and develop a program to deal with the problems.

 

[daniyalsm]

You may need to hire a grape growing consultant since you have so many questions all the time. We are trying to answer questions here from a picture or two which is not always accurate. The forum is intended to be a place where you can get some advice occasionally to help out not an all inclusive how to grow guide.

I will say that the dried up grapes can be caused by a number of diseases but most commonly by black rot (needs to be controlled with a fungicide before you see it in the grapes). If it is black rot they will shrivel and eventually get all wrinkly and almost black in color. They will hang on the vine all year. All infected clusters need to be pruned off to help reduce the source of future infection. It can lead to total crop loss.

1 and 2 are probably the best choice to leave since the other one has a severe angle to the first and could split the vine when you try to bend it.

The dead looking vine dies because of some vascular failure. It could be cause by a number of things including some disease. We aren't familiar with all disease you may have there. That is why I suggest a consultant. Once located and hired they can provide you with appropriate site specific information and develop a program to deal with the problems.

Sorry about all the questions. There are no reliable grape growing guides or persons in my area and that is why I have to rely on this forum for the stuff I cannot find myself through reading. I probably won't have any more questions for atleast 6 months now.
As always thank you for your help. If there is anyway I can repay you, do let me know.

 

[grapeman]

I am not saying we can't or won't help you out as best we can. It is just that we aren't familiar with your local problems (and maybe nobody is). Consultants would be trained to recognize those issues and would be better equipped to help you out. We are strictly volunteering our help here and expect no compensation and I for one want to help the most I can but feel in this case I am not being adequate.

 

[daniyalsm]

I am not saying we can't or won't help you out as best we can. It is just that we aren't familiar with your local problems (and maybe nobody is). Consultants would be trained to recognize those issues and would be better equipped to help you out. We are strictly volunteering our help here and expect no compensation and I for one want to help the most I can but feel in this case I am not being adequate.

You are being more than adequate and you do not have to feel any sort of responsibility for the suggestions you give. For they are better than not receiving any

 

[daniyalsm]

@grapeman hope you have been well and have had a good harvest.

My vineyard is now in its third year, however still many plants failed to reach the top wires. Some which did only had one proper shoot going to one side of the top wire instead of both sides. Now I am wondering how to proceed. Should I prune off everything again and leave just one shoot, or should I take some fruit from lower shoots.
What about the ones that only reached the lower wires? Can I take fruit from them or do I have to wait another year.

In this picture the grapevine has shoots both on the lower wires and the top wires. The top wire shoot going towards the right is very long, while the shoot going left is short. Can I still get decent fruit from this?

In this vine again the shoot going towards the right is pretty long, while the one going left is short. What can I do about these?

This vine has a strong shoot going towards the right but does not have any proper shoot going towards the left. How should I prune it.

Thank you in advance

 

[Marctee]

This is a bit of a stretch but u could check the videos on YouTube of Simonit&Sirch. The videos r in Italian but u may be able follow what he is doing visually. Their pruning method is based on maintaining sap flow and not making cuts that, as they dry out, interfere with the flow of the sap. They have an excellent pruning manuals for guyot and cordon. Again not yet in English.

 

[Marctee]

This is one of the books

 

[grapeman]

It is good to hear from you again. The vines like the one in the picture are doing pretty well. Prune off the canes on that lower wire, you are aiming for the vine structure growing from the top one. I would prune to back a bit on the top as they are pretty thin looking. Bring them back to where they are about pencil thickness. They are still a bit small to produce a lot of grapes but you can leave a few cluster on those vines this year.

The vines that are still short need to grow some more. Prune off extra canes getting them back to one or two canes and that will help to invigorate them this year. Don't allow them to bear fruit this year as that will drain the energy for growth.

I can't type a lot right now so am quitting for now. The cataracts have gotten worse and it is hard to see to use the computer. I have surgery Tuesday this week to correct the worse one and the second three weeks later.

 

[daniyalsm]

It is good to hear from you again. The vines like the one in the picture are doing pretty well. Prune off the canes on that lower wire, you are aiming for the vine structure growing from the top one. I would prune to back a bit on the top as they are pretty thin looking. Bring them back to where they are about pencil thickness. They are still a bit small to produce a lot of grapes but you can leave a few cluster on those vines this year.

The vines that are still short need to grow some more. Prune off extra canes getting them back to one or two canes and that will help to invigorate them this year. Don't allow them to bear fruit this year as that will drain the energy for growth.

I can't type a lot right now so am quitting for now. The cataracts have gotten worse and it is hard to see to use the computer. I have surgery Tuesday this week to correct the worse one and the second three weeks later.

I wish you the best of health and good luck for your surgery. Hopefully your eyes will be back to normal soon. Thanks for the great info

@marctee thank you for the information

 

[treesaver]

Grapeman, I hope all went well with your cataract surgeries! I'm gonna have to do that too....but not right away!

 

[Hokapsig]

Grapeman, I hope all went well with your cataract surgeries! I'm gonna have to do that too....but not right away!

I had a cataract and they did lens replacement on both eyes for me. When I went in, I was 20/2700 and 20/3200. I came out 20/20 and 20/70. I wish I would have done this 25 years ago.

You spend more time getting drops in your eye than in the operating room. 10 minutes in and out. Little bit of discomfort, but not having to wear glasses works for me. Highly recommend that you get it done yesterday.

 

[grapeman]

Yes it did go very well for me. I had them done four weeks apart because I was sidelined for a bit when they thought I had a blood clot in the heart. They began me on one blood thinner that gave me symptoms like a stroke. I ended up in the hospital for three days while I had a zillion tests and they put me on heparin which required constant blood tests to monitor it. Finally after three days they gave me another test and it was decided I had a hole in the atrium wall inside the heart that had been there since birth. They stopped the heparin and a few hours later I was let out. After a week or so I was able to get the other cataract out with the new lens (about 10 days ago now). I need to wait a couple more weeks to have an eye exam to see just what I need for glasses. I think I can get away with just reading glasses. Things are just so much brighter and colors are much more vibrant. The surgery really doesn't slow you down much at all. I asked two days ago if I needed to do anything special besides the drops and was told no I can do whatever I want. That is good because there were a lot of things before I wanted to do but wasn't able to. LOL

 

[daniyalsm]

@grapeman
Sir there are many buds which have more than 1 shoots emerging from them. Do we keep both, or snip one of?

Also there is something that looks like a flower cluster with the shoots, even though bud break happened around 10 days ago. Can you please let me know what these are. Thanks.

Thanks!

 

[grapeman]

Where there are two shoots, while they are small just flick them off by taking your thumb and just tip them to the side and they should pop off easily. At that point you don't need to prune them off so it is much quicker. Those little things that look like flower buds are flower buds! As the shoots grow so will those and in two to three weeks they will likely be flowering. Don't expect big showy flowers. The caps turn brown on them and drop off exposing the internal flower parts. That lasts a few days and then the small grapes start forming. Good luck sir.

 

[daniyalsm]

@grapeman oh great! So I will flick of the small ones. But what about the big ones. Is leaving them on good or bad? Also for the small ones, how to choose which one to flick off. Thanks sir.

 

[grapeman]

If the vines are getting established pretty good you can certainly leave some on this year. This is the third year for them isn't it? Figure on about a 50% crop the third year if getting established well. As far as which to take off, if there are two shoots at a node, leave the bigger one. You can always take off more shoots later if they are too thick. You can also take of more clusters later if you are seeing too many. Probably leave one cluster per shoot this year. After bloom and they begin to increase in size leave the first cluster and pinch off the other one or two on that shoot if there with your thumb and pointer finger nails. It goes pretty quickly at that stage.