some berry consentrat questions,,,

[user 32114]

ok I make all my country wines from berries and fruits I pick, as well s a couple neighbors that pick from their trees, ok so when I get to my finish stages I use a little back sweetening, as I don't care much for dry type wines , but at the same time I dob not want a sweet wine, I tend to fall into SEMI-SWEET PRODUCT, but with back sweeting you tend to loose a little bit of the flavor, so if I use a pure concentrate do I need to in order to get a clear wine [ need to find out if I add simple sugar ,and a pure berry/fruit concentrate into my finished wine will I need to rack a few more times in order to end up with a clean clear wine, with no surprises in the bottle of the wine bottles, now I'm talking about some top of the line concentrates , all natural with no additives at all, no preservative's nor any other such crap,,,,, all while in this finial step before bottling using sorbets to stop renewed fermentations at all, hence[ no bottle bombs..::

 

[Rodnboro]

If you're talking about frozen concentrate, yes you will need to let it bulk age a while to clear. I use the frozen concentrates to sweeten and flavor my Skeeter Pee. I add K- meta and sorbate then add the concentrate. A few days later I'll add Super Kleer and let it do its thing. The frozen concentrates will sweeten and flavor at the same time.

 

[Julie]

Another way is to use some of the wine, add some sugar and put that back once your wine is stabilized. Using wine instead of water keeps your flavor intack and you can control the sugar level. One cup of sugar will raise sg per gallon by .018.

If you are looking for a semi dry to semi sweet, backsweeten to 1.002, taste and adjust if needed.

 

[user 32114]

ok I was not pacific enough, the concentrate I speak of comes from gormay food suppliers, it comes in liquid form not frozen nore dry, it sells in 2 oz bottles, and runs around $20, I am near and more in likely any to bright, that is why I thank the lord for finding this site, the only one I fill needs stronger flavor is my black berry, and yes I have figured out that I must double my berry poundage in future ferments, and this ferment that has bulk aged 2 years now, but during blackberry season I tend to live constantly eating raw lack berries, and going to my parents home to show how depressed for my need of blackberry cobbler, I know I should be ashamed of myself, but dad 84 an mom 74 love it as much as I do, lol, so the wine I plan to set aside for myself alone is a semi-sweet blackberry, mom an dad raised me Pentecostal and have never drank alcohol, but this batch before I bottle and give it another 4 or 5 years I would really like to bump up the blackberry flavor, so even though I know to double up this coming year I'd really like to run up the flavor in this 15 gallon, I have bottled 5 gallon as is, for now an future taste tests. or should I just accept what I have now, it tastes fairly good to me as is an should only get better with age, and I do respect both men an women whom freely share their years of hard earned knowledge with me,
richard

 

[user 32114]

that is some wish food for thought and to experiment with, thank you for adding the math to the equation

Another way is to use some of the wine, add some sugar and put that back once your wine is stabilized. Using wine instead of water keeps your flavor intack and you can control the sugar level. One cup of sugar will raise sg per gallon by .018.

If you are looking for a semi dry to semi sweet, backsweeten to 1.002, taste and adjust if needed.

 

[Turock]

You can add concentrate and go right ahead and bottle. We do that very often. Just be sure to add some more SO2 and, of course, sorbate.

 

[jswordy]

Yep, I know those concentrates. Add the concentrate to boost flavor and bottle. If you are using sorbate, no worries at all.

Now, you say back-sweetening is causing you to lose flavor? Hmmm. It causes my fruit wines to BURST with flavor afterward. When I back-sweeten, I use no liquids. Granular table sugar only, into the carboy, and stir thoroughly. Then leave the thing a couple days and stir again. Then taste your wine.

In this method, you don't want to sweeten to your taste when you add the sugar. Sweeten to the dry side of what you want. The sugar will bloom in the wine when you let it sit a couple days, and you'll love it.

i'm good enough at it now that I can add the sugar by the cup in the measure I want for my tastes to a dry carboy, then rack over on top of it.

Yes, you can't rush right to bottling with this method. But by doing it this way, you are not diluting your wine. That's especially important to me when I am after an all-juice wine from the fruit.

 

[Turock]

If you find that backsweetening is lowering the flavor, the real reason for this is that the sugar--or sweetness--is not in balance with the acids. The whole idea of sweetening wine should be looked at as not making it sweet---but balancing the acid with the sugar to give a PERCEPTION of sweetness.

Some wines have delicate flavors---so you don't want to over-power a wine like that with too much sweetness because then the flavor goes hiding. It might help you to take SG readings as you sweeten a wine---that will give you some numbers to look at and make notes on. If you find you have over-sweetened a wine and lowered the flavor, you can bring some of the flavor back by adding some acid to it.

Be conservative with your sugar additions---you can always add a little more. And like jswordy said--sweeten more to the dry side because the wine will taste a tad more sweet after being in the bottles, than it tastes while you're adding the sugar in the moment.

If you have properly bulk-aged your wines, you can backsweeten and bottle immediately--this is how we do it. Bulk age your wines for at least 1 year--anything sooner is too early and you'll run into a number of problems.

 

[user 32114]

I trust your knowledge.
here is my problem, maybe the tang of alcohol is my miss guideless,, is do to me, for you see I have all but no pallet I have had so many operations in the last 6 years that scar tissue has closed my trachea to 99% closed off, so they pulled my trachea around in front of my esophagus and sewn my trachea to the surface of my neck then as close to my heart as possible they cut between my arteries and ran a tube from my throat to the spot where the trachea split to go into each lung. and beings taste is at least 3/4 of taste only overly strong flavors are only for my private wines, my wine I make from tips from people like you are highly praised of which I give truthful credit to this site and people such as you, if I leave a strong alcohol well I might as well drink cheap alcohol, I grew up on elderberry made by old men long dead now, I was the only one besides the older men that got the ten year aged, in gallon thumb hole jugs, what I make for my brothers and old friends that I have an still trust with my life gets the wine the way I've learned on here,: but when I drink now and then they brag an I smile, but the wine I wish to sip on something I long to taste the fruit an/or berries. after I became disabled I spent 6 years before the last 6 years trying to go back to work, I firmly believe a man pulls his own weight, I went thru my savings and retirement hoping to work again all I achieved was waiting long enough to lose $100 a month for each year I waited, so know I get 1255 a month instead of 1855, but I have no regrets, I wanted no check I wanted to earn my way, the wine I make for my friends an family I run at about 12 to 13 % alcohol, but I still have some 2 year old 10 gallon black berry, 5 gallon straw berry an 5 gallon wild elderberry, I pick all my own fruit and berry and I know for future use I'll triple the amount of berries an fruit for my private wines in the future, I'll make normal country wines for family an friends, but for what I all ready have bulk aged I'd like to make some of very strong flavor so I might be able to taste, , now a days I live from 3rd to 3rd of the month, in February or march depending on my funds I will if you will so allow I'd like to send you some 2014 wines I serve to family and friends, blackberry. strawberry, and a white blend of equal parts of yellow delicious, granny smith apples with a small amount of crab apple in it, I do value your opinion, I've read many of your post and find them insightful and very helpful, thank you for letting me now I can use these concentrates for some already bulk aged and ready to bottle, one last thing I am an old fashioned hillbilly whom likes to be told the brutal truth,
and yet again thank you for the info
Richard::

Yep, I know those concentrates. Add the concentrate to boost flavor and bottle. If you are using sorbate, no worries at all.

Now, you say back-sweetening is causing you to lose flavor? Hmmm. It causes my fruit wines to BURST with flavor afterward. When I back-sweeten, I use no liquids. Granular table sugar only, into the carboy, and stir thoroughly. Then leave the thing a couple days and stir again. Then taste your wine.

In this method, you don't want to sweeten to your taste when you add the sugar. Sweeten to the dry side of what you want. The sugar will bloom in the wine when you let it sit a couple days, and you'll love it.

i'm good enough at it now that I can add the sugar by the cup in the measure I want for my tastes to a dry carboy, then rack over on top of it.

Yes, you can't rush right to bottling with this method. But by doing it this way, you are not diluting your wine. That's especially important to me when I am after an all-juice wine from the fruit.

 

[user 32114]

I fear the lose of flavor is my fault. I have had so many operation that they have filled my trachea with 99% scare tissue, so they pulled my trachea around my esophagus and sewn it to the surface of my throat , then they cut a hole by my heart between my artery's to the y in the trachea where it splits into both lungs, so I have a tube that goes into my throat and into my lungs, I make my wine as I have learned on here by people as you an others, and every one claims to love It, I still have some 2 year old bulk aged, 10 gallon blackberry, 5 gallon strawberry, and 5 gallon elderberry, all of which I have hand picked myself, my wines run from 11% to 13% alcohol, but for some private stock made to my taste only I need to bump up way higher then good wine for a normal people, in the future my private stock only for my self. I will triple the amounts of berries and fruits just for my lack of pallet, my whole like I have hated with all my heart was green peas, now I can eat them no problem because I have no pallet ,,, I do value your knowledge very greatly, but now you see I make normal wine for family and close friends, but I wish to make a special strong berry an/or fruit for me, ::::

If you find that backsweetening is lowering the flavor, the real reason for this is that the sugar--or sweetness--is not in balance with the acids. The whole idea of sweetening wine should be looked at as not making it sweet---but balancing the acid with the sugar to give a PERCEPTION of sweetness.

Some wines have delicate flavors---so you don't want to over-power a wine like that with too much sweetness because then the flavor goes hiding. It might help you to take SG readings as you sweeten a wine---that will give you some numbers to look at and make notes on. If you find you have over-sweetened a wine and lowered the flavor, you can bring some of the flavor back by adding some acid to it.

Be conservative with your sugar additions---you can always add a little more. And like jswordy said--sweeten more to the dry side because the wine will taste a tad more sweet after being in the bottles, than it tastes while you're adding the sugar in the moment.

If you have properly bulk-aged your wines, you can backsweeten and bottle immediately--this is how we do it. Bulk age your wines for at least 1 year--anything sooner is too early and you'll run into a number of problems.

 

[jswordy]

I fear the lose of flavor is my fault. I have had so many operation that they have filled my trachea with 99% scare tissue, so they pulled my trachea around my esophagus and sewn it to the surface of my throat , then they cut a hole by my heart between my artery's to the y in the trachea where it splits into both lungs, so I have a tube that goes into my throat and into my lungs, I make my wine as I have learned on here by people as you an others, and every one claims to love It, I still have some 2 year old bulk aged, 10 gallon blackberry, 5 gallon strawberry, and 5 gallon elderberry, all of which I have hand picked myself, my wines run from 11% to 13% alcohol, but for some private stock made to my taste only I need to bump up way higher then good wine for a normal people, in the future my private stock only for my self. I will triple the amounts of berries and fruits just for my lack of pallet, my whole like I have hated with all my heart was green peas, now I can eat them no problem because I have no pallet ,,, I do value your knowledge very greatly, but now you see I make normal wine for family and close friends, but I wish to make a special strong berry an/or fruit for me, ::::

I want strong fruit flavor in my wine, too. I want it very richly fruit-forward, so the flavor is evident on the tongue and front of the mouth. To get that, the best bet is to use all fruit.

Add an absolute minimum, or ideally, zero water. Treat your must as though it is a water desert, being stingy to just add enough to provide fluidity if that is needed with certain fruits that don't produce a lot of liquid on their own.

Use pectic enzyme with every fresh fruit and grape wine you make to draw out the maximum fluid yield. Freeze every batch of fruit solid and thaw it out before making wine. That also draws out more moisture and flavor by bursting cell walls.

Make enough wine that you have a gallon jug fermenting alongside the carboy, and use that to top up. That is easy for me (and I suspect you) because I make 20+ gallons at a time most times now.

Vote as a general rule for letting time settle your wines over using a clearing agent that can sometimes strip flavor away as it works. Use such agents only when a clearing problem seems to arise, never to speed up the process.

Going all grapes or all fruit does increase your costs. In some cases, like commercial blueberries, you have to add some water or the costs would just be way too high. But be a water miser, and buy as much fruit as you can afford in those cases. Even if you have $4-$5 a bottle in the finished wine, the Oh-My-God goodness of it would be worth $15-$30 if bought in a store.

Another useful technique is to make an all-fruit wine in a smaller batch from your berries or fruit, and then blend it with a complimentary grape wine that has been made with a minimum of water. Mmmm...this works very well with blueberry and blackberry.

I rarely have to use acid of any kind to finish wines, because the fruit has been boosted so much. Every once in awhile, but it is not common.

 

[Turock]

OK--if you want big flavor then the way to do that is to make fruit wine with no water. I suggest doing blackberry this way as the flavor is huge on it with no water. Freeze the berries first--when they thaw, they'll be real juicy and no need for extra water.

If you can do elderberry, freeze them first, also. They often need a little water for processing so only use 2 or 3 pints depending on how much fruit you have. You'll make an elderberry wine that will have big enough flavor to remove paint.

 

[yanks4carolyn]

hounddawg...you sound like an awesome person. 10 yr blackberry??? Dang it, you are patient, too. Try this...get the fruit you want to make wine out of. If it's plums or larger fruit cut it into small pieces. Now, take one piece, put it in your mouth and close your eyes. Concentrate on the flavor and chew slowly. Don't think about your trach, focus on your taste buds that are on your tongue. Next, put 2 pieces at a time in your mouth and repeat...then 3 and so on. This lets you decide how much fruit it takes before you say, ok that was good. It takes you to "Wow, that was good!" It also helps you learn which taste buds are taking in the flavor. Different areas of your tongue have different taste buds. I hope this is not confusing as I tend to over write. I think by experimenting like this way you will begin to taste things differently. Example: one blackberry is good but 3 or more really just dazzle you. Experience the rush of the juice and the sugar slowly as you're thinking about WHY you like it so well. If it doesn't work for you, at least you had a great snack.

 

[user 32114]

OH YES ON SO MANY ACCOUNTS,
this is my first with wines, we'll not talk spirits ,lol
I pick 95% of my own fruit, the neighbors I get extra granny smiths and pears,, my problem was as a first batch as you noted I did not use enough berries in my blackberry wine, I should tripled it, my pear, granny smith ad yellow declivous with a touch of sergeants yellow crab apple blend is full of taste and I hope my elderberries an strawberries will be good as well I hope, I have supreme patience , all these were made at the same till in 2014, I'll be bottling the strawberries next, then my elderberries, the elderberries I will put 80% in the root cellar to age 8 more years, as you I have tannes/acid blend but did not use any on my wines, as for clearing I did but finings 2 years ago but did not use any, I racked most over a year, the pear blend almost two years, I have not made any since, but since I didn't get my carboy's wet enough so they did not multiply , and yea as you noted I have several thumb hole jugs in both gallon an 1/2 gallon for top off purposes only:: all right mainly I use for top off, I may be patient but no saint ,,,lol for each size carboy I make 2 gallons extra, easy when not having to pay for fruit, although I did buy a can of sweet cherry to make a 3 gallon carboy and #2 1/2 gallon jugs, last year between trips to the hospital I did plant a couple plum trees and a few cherry trees, and increased my elderberries, although I did have to put a couple hundred pounds of deer burger.. I used chimes, tin pie plates and coyote piss run over sand an hung around, finialy I went with deer burgers, that WORKED WELL FOR EVERYONE BUT THE DEER,:: but the first 4 trees they killed were grafted 3 y/o cherry trees that I gave closes to $60 apiece trees shipping and all. this year if I stay outta the hospital I plan on getting another 7 Italian carboys from 6 an 1/2 down to 5 gallon, I think I'll stick with just 1 3-gal carboy, I know that 38 gallons of different wines may be crazy to start with, but to be honest from what I read on hear I may be the only sane one here,, lol , but I would like to end up with 40 carboys 35 for wine and five for racking,, and of course maybe and 20 gallon jugs an 20 more 1/2 gallon jugs, the main thing I was wondering was about the 10 gallons I aint bottled yet that was the only purpose for adding to that ten gallon, not to use in the future, now that I;ve got 5 carboys empty i'll be starting a pure pear, and yes I used pectin on all my fruits an berries after freezing them, I freeze all my berries and fruits, I thank you for the information an for your time as well sir,
thank you
Richard::

I want strong fruit flavor in my wine, too. I want it very richly fruit-forward, so the flavor is evident on the tongue and front of the mouth. To get that, the best bet is to use all fruit.

Add an absolute minimum, or ideally, zero water. Treat your must as though it is a water desert, being stingy to just add enough to provide fluidity if that is needed with certain fruits that don't produce a lot of liquid on their own.

Use pectic enzyme with every fresh fruit and grape wine you make to draw out the maximum fluid yield. Freeze every batch of fruit solid and thaw it out before making wine. That also draws out more moisture and flavor by bursting cell walls.

Make enough wine that you have a gallon jug fermenting alongside the carboy, and use that to top up. That is easy for me (and I suspect you) because I make 20+ gallons at a time most times now.

Vote as a general rule for letting time settle your wines over using a clearing agent that can sometimes strip flavor away as it works. Use such agents only when a clearing problem seems to arise, never to speed up the process.

Going all grapes or all fruit does increase your costs. In some cases, like commercial blueberries, you have to add some water or the costs would just be way too high. But be a water miser, and buy as much fruit as you can afford in those cases. Even if you have $4-$5 a bottle in the finished wine, the Oh-My-God goodness of it would be worth $15-$30 if bought in a store.

Another useful technique is to make an all-fruit wine in a smaller batch from your berries or fruit, and then blend it with a complimentary grape wine that has been made with a minimum of water. Mmmm...this works very well with blueberry and blackberry.

I rarely have to use acid of any kind to finish wines, because the fruit has been boosted so much. Every once in awhile, but it is not common.

 

[user 32114]

I understand you meaning to the tee, I will try that, because there are times I can taste some things, as for patient I tend to think , laid back,,,,,
thank you an I will try just what you said
thank you
richard::

hounddawg...you sound like an awesome person. 10 yr blackberry??? Dang it, you are patient, too. Try this...get the fruit you want to make wine out of. If it's plums or larger fruit cut it into small pieces. Now, take one piece, put it in your mouth and close your eyes. Concentrate on the flavor and chew slowly. Don't think about your trach, focus on your taste buds that are on your tongue. Next, put 2 pieces at a time in your mouth and repeat...then 3 and so on. This lets you decide how much fruit it takes before you say, ok that was good. It takes you to "Wow, that was good!" It also helps you learn which taste buds are taking in the flavor. Different areas of your tongue have different taste buds. I hope this is not confusing as I tend to over write. I think by experimenting like this way you will begin to taste things differently. Example: one blackberry is good but 3 or more really just dazzle you. Experience the rush of the juice and the sugar slowly as you're thinking about WHY you like it so well. If it doesn't work for you, at least you had a great snack.

 

[user 32114]

I already freeze but like you said no more water in my blackberries
thank you
richard

OK--if you want big flavor then the way to do that is to make fruit wine with no water. I suggest doing blackberry this way as the flavor is huge on it with no water. Freeze the berries first--when they thaw, they'll be real juicy and no need for extra water.

If you can do elderberry, freeze them first, also. They often need a little water for processing so only use 2 or 3 pints depending on how much fruit you have. You'll make an elderberry wine that will have big enough flavor to remove paint.