Sourcing Disease Resistant Vines

[ATX Red]

Hi all. I'm in a common Pierce's Disease area in Central TX, and I'm looking to source some vines for a small plot. I'd like to give myself as much of an advantage as possible and plant the disease resistant Camminare Noir, but I'm unable to find it anywhere. I've left messages at nurseries that were at least known to carry it at one time, or sourced it to large vineyards. Any direction or help would be really appreciated! Thanks.

 

[Tin_Man]

Hey,
Contact Texas A&M University. I believe they have Camminare Noir in their research vineyard. The variety itself comes from California I believe.
Hope this helps.

 

[ATX Red]

I'll check it out, thanks! At this point, I would pay for a successful tip to avoid losing a year.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

You should be able to plant regular Vinifera vines as long as you use proper rootstock, for Pierces disease you want to use 1103 Paulsen, it is supposed to be extremely tolerant/resistant to pierces disease and part of the cuttings used to create it are supposedly from Texas originally. I would reach out to A&M and ask for Vinifera that would work where you live and see what they tell you and then get it grafted on 1103 and you should be better off. You will get better quality wine as well.

 

[ATX Red]

Thanks. I'm still learning and reading all about grafting now. I guess my next questions would be, why would a school spend so much time and money on creating a hybrid that is disease resistant and less than 100% Vinifera, if grafting rootstocks is already viable?

 

[dfort]

Camminare Noir is one of the five Pierce's Disease resistant varieties developed by Andrew Walker at UC Davis. It is in the Foundation Plant Services catalog. You might try contacting FPS to find nurseries that carry it with your preferred rootstock. I found this recorded webinar from Texas A&M if you want to learn more about it.

Note that grafting will protect against phylloxera because it attacks the root but Pierce's Disease is spread by the glassy winged sharpshooter so the rootstock doesn't provide the same amount of protection.

I have ordered cuttings from FPS and they are great to deal with. If you weren't in a hurry I would suggest ordering Paulsen 1103 and Camminare Noir cuttings and do your own grafting. However, you missed the cutoff for ordering this year and I'm not sure what the agriculture regulations are for bringing in plant material in Texas.

 

[Fox Squirrel Vin]

You should be able to plant regular Vinifera vines as long as you use proper rootstock, for Pierces disease you want to use 1103 Paulsen, it is supposed to be extremely tolerant/resistant to pierces disease and part of the cuttings used to create it are supposedly from Texas originally. I would reach out to A&M and ask for Vinifera that would work where you live and see what they tell you and then get it grafted on 1103 and you should be better off. You will get better quality wine as well.

Some rootstocks provide limited protection but do not merit the investment for grafted vines. The vines will always show symptoms and will eventually need to be removed.

Link: Grapevine rootstock effects on scion sap phenolic levels, resistance to Xylella fastidiosa infection, and progression of Pierce's disease

There were 5 PD resistant releases from UC Davis that will be available next year. AA has Ambulo Blanc available now, the other 4 you need to get on a waiting list for next year shipments. None of these varieties should be used as a rootstock, that is not what they were developed for. They make good wine on their own but California vineyards will most likely use them for blending and increasing production in areas that have significant PD issues. They can be grafted to other rootstock for your soil type however.

These vines are a licensed product with royalties to be paid per plant. Only 4 or 5 nurseries in 2020 completed the licensing with UC Davis/Walker so that is why you have not been able to find any stock.

Link: UC Davis Releases 5 New Wine Grape Varieties

 

[Nebbiolo020]

I actually disagree with all the information you linked, strongly disagree with it. And I also am friends with several people working at UC Davis have been for years now. And my friend who works at foundation plant services which is who maintains the entire grapevine collection at Davis and does all the grafting and growing and dna testing of grapvines will personally tell you that 1103 Paulsen resists pierces disease pretty much completely.

 

[dfort]

Well there you go, I stand corrected. Here's the proof:
https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/pdcp/Documents/Proceedings/2021_pd_symposium_proceedings_final.pdf#page=38
Any comments on MGT 101-14? Seems like an option for those in wetter climates.

 

[Fox Squirrel Vin]

I actually disagree with all the information you linked, strongly disagree with it. And I also am friends with several people working at UC Davis have been for years now. And my friend who works at foundation plant services which is who maintains the entire grapevine collection at Davis and does all the grafting and growing and dna testing of grapvines will personally tell you that 1103 Paulsen resists pierces disease pretty much completely.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I said 1103 did not resist PD, I stated that vines grafted to it will show symptoms of an infection based on the research I have found. If 1103 indeed passes the PD resistance to vines grafted to it reliably, I'm not sure why 1103 is not used extensively by vineyards that have PD issues such as the one cited in the article from UC Davis about one of the vineyards that tested the new PD resistant releases. If the problem could be solved by a single rootstock, I'm not sure why Andy Walker would have persisted with his research to develop new varieties specifically for their PD resistance.

Quote from the UC Davis article:

Winemaker Adam Tolmach, owner of The Ojai Vineyard in Ojai, planted four of the new varieties as part of a 1.2-acre experimental field trial. The trial was on the same plot of land where Pierce’s disease wiped out his grapes in 1995. The vineyard then and now is organic, so spraying insecticides to fight the disease spread wasn’t an option.

“I wasn’t interested in planting in that plot again until I heard about these new Pierce’s disease resistant grape varietals,” said Tolmach. “This year was the first harvest. We’ve just begun to evaluate the wine but I’m very encouraged.”

I can only make statements based on what research has been completed and the results being published. This happens to be a very important issue for me and my location and I have not been able to find anything that will allow the cultivation of Vinifera until these new Andy Walker varieties were released.

Here is some heavy reading if you are up to it from the 2021 Pierce’s Disease Research Symposium in California last year. I do know research is being done with 1103 and Chardonnay but that research is still being conducted.

This PDF is 373 pages long so I'm not sure if I would try to open it in a mobile device.

Link: https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/pdcp/Documents/Proceedings/2021_pd_symposium_proceedings_final.pdf

Regarding the 5 new varieties of PD resistant vines released by Andy Walker, where is your disagreement there? That is wildly known to be a fact and those varieties are now being commercially produced.

 

[mljcpa]

Hi all, should Camminare Noir, or the other four new varieties be more widely available to order for 2023 planting season?

 

[Nebbiolo020]

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I said 1103 did not resist PD, I stated that vines grafted to it will show symptoms of an infection based on the research I have found. If 1103 indeed passes the PD resistance to vines grafted to it reliably, I'm not sure why 1103 is not used extensively by vineyards that have PD issues such as the one cited in the article from UC Davis about one of the vineyards that tested the new PD resistant releases. If the problem could be solved by a single rootstock, I'm not sure why Andy Walker would have persisted with his research to develop new varieties specifically for their PD resistance.

Quote from the UC Davis article:

I can only make statements based on what research has been completed and the results being published. This happens to be a very important issue for me and my location and I have not been able to find anything that will allow the cultivation of Vinifera until these new Andy Walker varieties were released.

Here is some heavy reading if you are up to it from the 2021 Pierce’s Disease Research Symposium in California last year. I do know research is being done with 1103 and Chardonnay but that research is still being conducted.

This PDF is 373 pages long so I'm not sure if I would try to open it in a mobile device.

Link: https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/pdcp/Documents/Proceedings/2021_pd_symposium_proceedings_final.pdf

Regarding the 5 new varieties of PD resistant vines released by Andy Walker, where is your disagreement there? That is wildly known to be a fact and those varieties are now being commercially produced.

It can be solved with one vine I think the research is redundant and doesn’t need to be done but that’s just my opinion. I’ve worked extensively with vineyards grafted on 1103p.

 

[Fox Squirrel Vin]

It can be solved with one vine I think the research is redundant and doesn’t need to be done but that’s just my opinion. I’ve worked extensively with vineyards grafted on 1103p.

And I've talked to a few people in Florida that tried the 1103 rootstock here and it didn't work, The vines still got PD and died.

Like I asked before, if it works so well against PD, why aren't vineyards in Florida growing Vinifera when there is absolutely no reason other than PD as to why they are NOT being grown here?

 

[Fox Squirrel Vin]

Hi all, should Camminare Noir, or the other four new varieties be more widely available to order for 2023 planting season?

Yes, you can get on the order list at Double A vineyards. Call and talk to Jillian.

 

[Denden5136]

And I've talked to a few people in Florida that tried the 1103 rootstock here and it didn't work, The vines still got PD and died.

Like I asked before, if it works so well against PD, why aren't vineyards in Florida growing Vinifera when there is absolutely no reason other than PD as to why they are NOT being grown here?

PD is not a rootstock disease. It is a bacterial disease transferred by sharpshooters (glassy and other). There is no rootstock that I am aware of that will stop PD (from the bacteria Xylella Fastidiosa). 1103P is a standard rootstock that is commonly used in California and is fairly drought tolerant. About 70% of my vineyard is on 1103P.

Selected rootstocks may have high nematode resistance (thus phylloxera, dagger nematode, or root knot resistance), but if the vector flies (red blotch disease, Pinot Gris Disease, grapevine leafroll, PD, etc.), the rootstock will not stop it.

I am attaching a rootstock guide from my UCD Viticulture class that may be helpful to all.

I hope this helps.

 

[mljcpa]

I reached out to Wonderful Nursery and they have two of the Walker varieties available right now to be shipped.

 

[Fox Squirrel Vin]

PD is not a rootstock disease. It is a bacterial disease transferred by sharpshooters (glassy and other). There is no rootstock that I am aware of that will stop PD (from the bacteria Xylella Fastidiosa). 1103P is a standard rootstock that is commonly used in California and is fairly drought tolerant. About 70% of my vineyard is on 1103P.

Selected rootstocks may have high nematode resistance (thus phylloxera, dagger nematode, or root knot resistance), but if the vector flies (red blotch disease, Pinot Gris Disease, grapevine leafroll, PD, etc.), the rootstock will not stop it.

I am attaching a rootstock guide from my UCD Viticulture class that may be helpful to all.

I hope this helps.

Thank you, yes, it does!

 

[Shibumi]

I wanted to start a new thread but I don't see that in the menu. New member today so perhaps I can't do that yet.

I purchased 7 Errante Noir vines from Double A Vineyards this week for next spring.

I live in South Louisiana Zone 9a.

I've added a link to the 7 PD resistant wine grape varieties created by Dr. Walker at UC Davis as mentioned above.

I've not tried looking through all the threads yet, but my main concern growing this variety in my locale will be how to train to ensure a good wine grape.

The growing season is so very long here basically mid March to early November, so no issue with ripening time.

For me it's figuring out how much sun to expose the grape bunches to for proper development but not overexposure.

The Walker series I'm told can be spur trained which I'm glad for as I'm familiar with it.

I'm thinking VSP. I think I'll need to hedge the shoots at some height to cut back on vigor. May do need a ground cover to limit soil resources as well... I'm thinking red clover.

Anyway glad I found a large forum for grape growing and wine making.

https://caes.ucdavis.edu/news/uc-davis-releases-5-new-wine-grape-varieties

 

[ibglowin]

Welcome to WMT!

Its a little hard to see at first but under the sub-forum you wish to post a new thread to its the blank area you see here with the words "Thread Title"

I wanted to start a new thread but I don't see that in the menu. New member today so perhaps I can't do that yet.

I purchased 7 Errante Noir vines from Double A Vineyards this week for next spring.

I live in South Louisiana Zone 9a.

I've added a link to the 7 PD resistant wine grape varieties created by Dr. Walker at UC Davis as mentioned above.

I've not tried looking through all the threads yet, but my main concern growing this variety in my locale will be how to train to ensure a good wine grape.

The growing season is so very long here basically mid March to early November, so no issue with ripening time.

For me it's figuring out how much sun to expose the grape bunches to for proper development but not overexposure.

The Walker series I'm told can be spur trained which I'm glad for as I'm familiar with it.

I'm thinking VSP. I think I'll need to hedge the shoots at some height to cut back on vigor. May do need a ground cover to limit soil resources as well... I'm thinking red clover.

Anyway glad I found a large forum for grape growing and wine making.

 

[sour_grapes]

Welcome aboard!