Tap Water Question

[slopenutz]

Any negatives to using tap water after it has been "softened"? Our softener uses salt cube and I have been hesitant to use anything other than bottled spring water. Just wanted to know if I am worrying too much

 

[AlFulchino]

if there is any 'drip' in the line to all your various house fixtures during the softening period you will get salt in your tap water

in my opinion..other than that you have little as a home wine maker to be concerned about

 

[wctisue]

I don't use tap water. Flouride, clorine, minerals, and lots of other stuff. Al is probably right and there probably isn't enough "junk" to worry about.


However, we're only using a couple of gallons of water so you might as well use as pure a product as possible. If you're worrying then you should use water you don't worry about.


Wayne

 

[Wade E]

If you believe that most of that water you buy is any different then what comes out of your tap your kidding yourself. The only water that can be guaranteed better is distilled but thats not good for using in wine making at this point, it is a better choice when topping off though as the 02 has been removed.

 

[slopenutz]

I am really just concerned about the salt content. We have VERY hard water so our softener is turned up fairly high.

 

[cpfan]

I am really just concerned about the salt content. We have VERY hard water so our softener is turned up fairly high.

If you're worried about the potential salt content, thenit will probably always be in the back of your mind. Getting some store-bought water should be good.


Personally I really don'tagree withWade's comments. In Canada, the government has rules & regs for water bottlers & sellers. At minimum, it must be treated for bacteria. I would guess that the US gov't has similar regs.


I get my Reverse Osmosis water from a small local business, and you can see his filtering equipment in the back room. I have talked to the owner and believe that he maintains the equipment well.


People say not to use distilled water, or softened water (unless it has been thru an RO machine). Many others (including kit manufacturers) say if you like to drink the water then it is fine for wine making.


Your choice.


Steve

 

[AlFulchino]

Slope....i have very hard water also....and i use a salt system...i have used my home water for cleaning along w k meta....never a problem.....i do not use any water for anything else other than air locks

bottled water such as Dasani is Texas tap water

Poland Springs is supposed to be from a natural spring, but i have heard an occasional report to the contrary...but it is great drinking water in my book

as i said before, unless you have salt in your water lines left over from the previous nights 'regeneration' i would not think much about it

exactly where are you using the water other than for cleaning and air locks? to top off and/or reconstitute?

 

[cpfan]

.bottled water such as Dasani is Texas tap water

Are you saying that your water is that good? Although I dislike Dasani, and don't drink it unless I have to, and would never use it in my wine or beer.


Or are you saying that the bottler takes Texas tap water and filters it a whole bunch (including probably Reverse Osmosis) before bottling it? ANd in the case of Dasani adds some minerals.


Because the latter is what I think happens. I know that the water I use is Welland City water that is filtered (including reverse osmosis), and ozonated.


Steve

 

[AlFulchino]

Steve, my home water (on site well) is pretty good after softening...the well (also on site) over at my vineyard is outstanding and requires nothing and tastes great

further..i use no water in wine making other than to clean and for air locks

As to Dasani..i was an Amoco and Mobil oil retailer for 20+ years...we sold Dasani at all our locations...i was told specifically by the people at Coca Cola that Dasani was in fact a refined tap water

i dont think the average homeowner in the US has to be concerned about tap water...i said the *average* homeowner

I have not made beer, so i leave that to others to talk about

the water here in new england tends to be pretty darn good in my area except for pockets of extra iron and which i do get at my house

 

[cpfan]

i was told specifically by the people at Coca Cola that Dasani was in fact a refined tap water

refined? filtered & ozonated? same thing? Coke guy probably doesn't want to get into what ozonation means. I know that unless it is actual spring water (and I don't believe a name like Poland Springs), that it is processed tap water.

i dont think the average homeowner in the US has to be concerned about tap water...i said the *average* homeowner

I would agree with that. Although many folks are concerned about the chlorine in their water.


Steve

 

[AlFulchino]

Hi Steve, Poland Springs is in Maine...i visited the site as a teenager ...i saw the set up.....it was a spring fed water company....what i heard was that a few yrs ago in order to facilitate more production they had added *wells* and got into some hot water about that because that made some of the water not spring fed

to view what Dasani does click below...it all starts at their bottlers local water supply

http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/flash/csr/dasani/index.html</span>

 

[cpfan]

Al:


Thanks for the link to the Dasani page. Confirms what I said...filtered (charcoal to remove chlorine and taste disruptors), RO'd, ozonated (twice actually), and minerals added. It may be softened as well to keep those minerals out of the charcoal filters &amp; RO Membranes.


Poland Springs is a name. Unless they are claiming "spring water" elsewhere on the bottle, it means nothing.


Steve

 

[ibglowin]

I always, always use bottled water when making up a kit and we have great tasting Rocky Mountain water. I don't want the chlorine (or any other additives) in my wine, plus we have lots of silica in our water which I don't want either. 5 Gallons of water cost me $2. We use it in our Jura Capressa coffee machine as well and we have never once had to clean it out due to any mineral build up in 3 years so I know its doing its job.

Some municipalities chlorinate the H#*@ out of their water for safety's sake. That by itself is enough for me to use a bottled (or filtered) water alone.

 

[PeterZ]

OK, time for a brief primer on home water treatments.


Softening: Softening is done to remove hardness ions, which are the divalent cations, mainly Ca+2 and Mg+2. These are the ions that cause buildup in coffee makers and shower heads and in your water heater. The normal procedure is to run the water through an ion exchange resin. The ion exchange resin is loaded with sodium, weakly attached. When the hardness ions come through the resin bed they bump the sodium ions off the resin and attach, because they have more attraction to the resin than the sodium does.


The salt comes into play when the resin is filled up with hardness ions. A strong solution of salt is passed through the resin and the overwhelming concentration of sodium forces the hardness off. This solution is sent down the drain and, once the resin is regenerated, the remaining salt solution is rinsed to the drain as well. In most home softeners this is normally done on a timer in the middle of the night.


The net result of softening is that the ionic content of the water is unchanged, but the bothersome hardness ions are replaced with sodium.


Reverse Osmosis: Reverse osmosis (RO) uses a semipermiable membrane to purify water. You may remember osmosis from highschool biology, where water passes through a semipermiable membrane from an area of low salt (actually ionic) concentration to an area of high salt concentration to dilute the high salt concentration. RO uses pressure to reverse the process. Think of it as a pressure filter that works at the molecular level. It removes all ions, not just hardness, and each pass is about 75% efficient.


In commercial RO systems, part of the untreated water with higher solids is discarded in order to prevent clogging the membrane. In home systems the filter cartridges are periodically replaced when they clog up.


RO membranes are very sensitive to chlorine and particulates, so the water is usually filtered and passed through activated charcoal to remove particulates and chlorine. Membranes are also sensitive to bacterial buildup. That is why commercial systems, and some home systems, treat the water with UV light before passing it into the RO membrane.


The net result of RO treatment of home systems is a reduction of the ionic content of 50 - 80%


Distilled or deionized (DI) water: "Distilled water" is a kind of generic term for water that has had substantially all ions removed. Originally, distillation was the only way to do this. Today, DI water is most often prepared by using ion exchange technology similar to water softening. There are two resins used, one to remove all cations (positively charged ions) and the other to remove all anions (negatively charged ions). In the cation exchangecolumn cations are exchanged for hydrogen (H+), and in the anion exchange column the anions are exchanged for hydroxyl ions (OH-). H+ + OH- --&gt; H2O. The resins are regenerated with hydrochloric acid (HCl) and caustic soda (NaOH) respectively.


All that being said, my phylosophy about water for use in winemaking is that if your water is good enough to drink, it's good enough to make wine with. Even high chlorine is not a problem, because the high organic content of the wine concentrate will overwhelm the chlorine and destroy it.

 

[AlFulchino]

Peter...thank you...and yes my home system has a prefilter for the iron and then a resin system using salt for the Mg

great to have someone like you here

and since i got you in here for a moment....i am ready to replace my pool filter motor......should i stay w the same DE system or go over to a salt system?
sorry, had to ask

 

[Pablo]

I use distilled water in my wine and spring water in my beers. I have a RO system but have not hooked it up. The water at my house has way too much sodium. I have ruined several brews by using it. During Winestock 2009, Nino said to use distilled water when making kits. I know George and Joseph use tap water at the store. They have good tap water. I would not use water from a softener system. Just my opinion.

I've been researching water for a while now. Ward Labs(www.wardlab.com) tests water. You can browse their website and send them samples. They can tell you everything you wanted to know about your water. It's reasonably priced too.

 

[hannabarn]

My guess is that if you look for things to worry about,You can sure find them!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[admiral]

I didn't realize how lucky I am to live in Louisville, KY. Our water tastes great. It has no out of bounds odors or tastes. In fact, we are award winning:



"The American Water Works Association (AWWA),
holding a regional conference this week in Knoxville, once again named
Louisville’s water the best tasting in Kentucky and Tennessee. </font>



Louisville Water Company (LWC) won the national
title earlier this summer at the national AWWA conference in Atlanta.
The regional win allows Louisville Water Company to defend the national
title next summer in San Diego."</font>

I really think it goes back to what I read on this forum early last year, "If the water tastes good when you drink it, then use it in your wine. If it doesn't, don't."
</font>

 

[PeterZ]

Al,


"should i stay w the same DE system or go over to a salt system"


A salt system is a radical change, so that is your decision. If you stay with a regular system just maintain pH and Cl2 levels. For an algaecide use a product that has the active ingredient poly[oxyethylene-dimethyliminio-ethylene-dimethyliminio-dichloride]. It's expensive, but it is by far the best algeacide for pools that there is. It is sold under a number of tradenames, so just check the active.

 

[AlFulchino]

grazie