The grapes next door

[vezePilot]

An unknown Boulderite must have planted these grapes years ago. My wife kinda hates the vines, but not so much since I built the new fence between us and the rental house next door. One year she tried making grape preserves, but didn't harvest enough and they didn't have good enough flavor. The college students renting the place don't care if I take them.

What kind might they be? How long should I let them go before trying to harvest? How many pounds do I need? Is it worth even thinking about?

 

[Rice_Guy]

The first guess is wild grape unless they are on a trellis system. Wild grape has a high seed to juice ratio, they aren’t very efficient. They also tend to stay high acid. Hopefully they are a domestic variety.

Grapes normally will change color when ripening, so watch for color. High sugar/ low acid/ high aroma is your goal so periodically taste. For measuring sugar we juice a sample and then measure specific gravity. This also indicates potential alcohol and if sugar should be added to the ferment. ,,, My lazy way to determine pick time of domestic grapes is to watch for yellow jacket wasps, they will start feeding on the fruit when it is ready. As a general rule letting grapes hang longer is better but if dehydration is visible (raisoning) they need to get picked. There are some varieties which will fall off the vine at a certain ripeness, my Edelweiss get picked at 16 brix even though I would like to ripen them longer. , , A final observation is that the seeds develop a brown color when approaching ripe.

 

[Snafflebit]

That leaf does not look like vinifera. I would guess a wild grape variety also

 

[NorCal]

I like the idea of waiting until you see others eating the fruit. I had a whole vineyard (not my current one) wiped out in a weekend by a herd of deers. Stripped the vineyard amaizingly clean. I shoot for 25 brix, the wildlife is good with anything over 20.

 

[VinesnBines]

I like the idea of waiting until you see others eating the fruit. I had a whole vineyard (not my current one) wiped out in a weekend by a herd of deers. Stripped the vineyard amaizingly clean. I shoot for 25 brix, the wildlife is good with anything over 20.

Or less Brix. Racoon will eat anything above 13 Brix. The fox waits for 25.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

I like the idea of waiting until you see others eating the fruit. I had a whole vineyard (not my current one) wiped out in a weekend by a herd of deers. Stripped the vineyard amaizingly clean. I shoot for 25 brix, the wildlife is good with anything over 20.

Deer wiped out a vineyard next to where I worked last year, birds also like grapes and I’ve seen birds tear up vineyards.

You gotta use netting and stuff to deter them.

 

[vezePilot]

The first guess is wild grape unless they are on a trellis system. Wild grape has a high seed to juice ratio, they aren’t very efficient. They also tend to stay high acid. Hopefully they are a domestic variety.

Grapes normally will change color when ripening, so watch for color. High sugar/ low acid/ high aroma is your goal so periodically taste. For measuring sugar we juice a sample and then measure specific gravity. This also indicates potential alcohol and if sugar should be added to the ferment. ,,, My lazy way to determine pick time of domestic grapes is to watch for yellow jacket wasps, they will start feeding on the fruit when it is ready. As a general rule letting grapes hang longer is better but if dehydration is visible (raisoning) they need to get picked. There are some varieties which will fall off the vine at a certain ripeness, my Edelweiss get picked at 16 brix even though I would like to ripen them longer. , , A final observation is that the seeds develop a brown color when approaching ripe.

So I'm following the advice in this thread. Today I picked one of these, because they are changing color. The grape I tasted was very good. Yes, quite a lot of seed inside. The outer skin is rather sour. But the flesh is sweet and tasty. And there are quite a LOT of them. I have the permission of the college kids who rent the place.

I will need to research how to "process" these. When my wife tried to use some last year, she may have crushed some seed. This would certainly have led to her conclusion that they were not useful for jelly/jam.


.

 

[Snafflebit]

Okay now that I see them ripe, I'd bet that this grape is Concord. Does the flesh pop out of the skin when you squeeze, or does the grape simply crush?

 

[Rice_Guy]

Like @Snafflebit the berry looks like concord or concord family (Niagara). Nice looking grape! Does it have a Welches juice flavor?

 

[vezePilot]

So, yes they are "slip skin" grapes, probably concord but not yet a lot of flavor. These would be good for Sweet Red wines, and the tannins are a bit more difficult to extract ... apparently. I have done a bit of reading about the uses of domestic concord grapes.

I am not planning on investing in a press at this time, so I'm thinking of using a DIY method of pressing. Perhaps something like slipping the skins off and pressing the skins separately from the pulp, before combining them again later. This would be in the interest of increased "structure" ... ?

My interest in using these grapes is mostly because it seems such a shame to waste them, which is what happens every year. I don't think I have ever tasted any sort of sweet red wine. I have also never made beer from grain, either.

Thanks very much for advice regarding this!

 

[vezePilot]

Fencepost said in another thread:
"Ferment in fine mesh bag and squeeze... takes a little effort to squeeze it all (grab handfuls within the bag, squeeze, go to next handful). Saves a step and something else touching the wine (like a press). I tried a small homemade press but just squeezing worked as well or better for 5 and 6 gallon batches... as mentioned above, there's not much pulp remaining."

I might try this method.

 

[VinesnBines]

It looks like the grapes aren't fully ripe. Especially since you say the skins are sour. They look good but really should be a deeper purple.

 

[Rice_Guy]

not planning on investing in a press at this time, so I'm thinking of using a DIY method of pressing. Perhaps something like slipping the skins off and pressing the skins separately from the pulp, before combining them again later. This would be in the interest of increased "structure" ... ?

my mom would juice grapes in a flour sack hanging from the knob on the upper kitchen cabinets, lots of twisting/ squeezing the bag but it works.
I am lazy so have favored a five gallon pail press as the easiest way to get started.

The riper the grapes the better the finished wine, patience is a virtue.

 

[vezePilot]

I harvested these grapes today. Many had dried up and fell off. No more sour skins, the ripe ones are sweet and tasty.

I will be out of town from the 7th to the 19th. So I may not be able to make use of these. But I figured if we don't harvest them now there will be no chance to do anything with them. Total is more than 10 lbs in these buckets. They are now covered and in a rather cool spot in the shop, where they will sit undisturbed while I am away.

Will they simply Spoil in the next two weeks?
Should I at least get rid of the green ones and the stems?


.

 

[Rice_Guy]

I would not expect them to last at room temp in buckets to the nineteenth. I wind up freezing lots of things till I have time.
You should clean out the stems (bitter tannins) and green fruit (high acid).
You could ferment with air lock from the seventh to the nineteenth.

My favorite concord is a mix with cranberry and then back sweeten.

 

[vezePilot]

Thank you so much for this advice. I had forgotten about folks freezing their fruit for winemaking. I think I will have time to remove the stems and green grapes before freezing. And thank you also for the suggestion of a mix to make the wine with cranberry. Back sweetening is what I have been doing for watermelon fruit wine.

 

[Hazelemere]

when you thaw them make them like a fruit wine 6 lbs grapes 3 lb sugar 1 Imperial gallon water. You should get a decent Labrusca rose.

 

[vezePilot]

So I am back on this project, thawing the grapes and mashing them out.

Isn't there a chemical/compound that I can use to reduce the risk of bacteria growth, but allow the yeast to grow?

Thanks!

 

[winemaker81]

Isn't there a chemical/compound that I can use to reduce the risk of bacteria growth, but allow the yeast to grow?

K-meta. Commercial yeast is typically K-meta tolerant.

 

[distancerunner]

Pectin enzyme would be a good idea, too.