Time vs Temp for Color Extraction

[RottenGrapeJuice]

I’m curious everyone’s opinion on how to maximize color extraction. I have made CS for a few years in a row and every year the color is weak. I understand that higher temp means more color extraction, but that would also lead to a shorter fermentation, which would lead to less less color extraction? It’s counter intuitive to me. What’s more important, time on skins, or temp of must? Because they are inversely related to one another.

So far I have been using lallzyme EXV, FT Rouge and it is better, but nothing like commercial wines. Only other thing I can think of trying is a cold soak. Unless of course all commercial wines are frauds and I am chasing an imaginary wine fairy

 

[MiBor]

I'm having the same problem with the Lodi Cab Sauvignon grapes I buy every year. I tried many techniques including enzymes, cold soaking, high temp fermentation for a day or two, extended contact after fermentation and all helped somewhat but none rendered the deep red or purple color of commercial wine.

I think that commercial wineries use other tricks to get the deep color they need in order to sell their wine, like Mega Purple or grape skin extracts. Cab skins are somewhat hard and color extraction from them is not easy.

Let's say, if you have a professional jacketed fermenter and the ability to control temperature and flush with inert gases, it would be theoretically possible to extend fermentation/extraction up to 60-90 days, which it may be the way to get the most color extraction from CS skins. But I'm convinced that the deep dark Cabernet that we buy at the store is most likely not just colored by the pigment extracted from the fermented skins, it had also been "helped" to look like that.

 

[winemaker81]

I've been using Scottzyme Color Pro since 2020, and it has produced amazing color on everything, including skin packs in kits. I ferment at cellar temperature (63 to 68 F), and get staining level color.

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/wm81-fall-2023-experiments.78340/post-879343

In 2021 I made FWK Forte kits with 2 skin packs each, using Color Pro. The color is bottle-staining dark.

How long are you leaving on the skins? Last October I left my wines on the skins for 2 weeks (crushed Saturday, inoculated Sunday, pressed 2 weeks later) and got great color.

 

[RottenGrapeJuice]

2 years ago, I remember the outside temp was higher so my must ran through primary in like 4 days at 80-85 degrees, color was light. This year I kept the must around 70-72 and I fermented over 11 days, color is definitely better, but this year is also Montepulciano and not CS so not a great experiment

However it does go back to my original point that everyone says high temps mean good color extraction, and while that may be true, it shortens the skin time and ultimately leads to weaker color.

I think going forward, cooler temps seem to be the way to go, and I can try out color pro and/or a cold soak. EM beyond a few days is too risky for my liking. Other than that, just gotta convince the drinkers that this is what a REAL wine looks like hahahaha

 

[RottenGrapeJuice]

I'm having the same problem with the Lodi Cab Sauvignon grapes I buy every year. I tried many techniques including enzymes, cold soaking, high temp fermentation for a day or two, extended contact after fermentation and all helped somewhat but none rendered the deep red or purple color of commercial wine.

I think that commercial wineries use other tricks to get the deep color they need in order to sell their wine, like Mega Purple or grape skin extracts. Cab skins are somewhat hard and color extraction from them is not easy.

Let's say, if you have a professional jacketed fermenter and the ability to control temperature and flush with inert gases, it would be theoretically possible to extend fermentation/extraction up to 60-90 days, which it may be the way to get the most color extraction from CS skins. But I'm convinced that the deep dark Cabernet that we buy at the store is most likely not just colored by the pigment extracted from the fermented skins, it had also been "helped" to look like that.

I could be wrong but I believe Lodi is also what I use. maybe it’s not be maybe it’s the grapes haha