Other Tweeking Cheap Kits

[Jim612]

Joe. I’m going to start a WE blood orange Chianti kit
Any suggestions about tweaking with anything to help improve my product?

 

[GaDawg]

I just finished binge reading this thread and should have taken notes! How long do you age in the bottle, @joeswine?

Thank you!

If you use a few 375ml bottles you can sample as they age.

 

[laxarwolf]

So another idea for a buttery chardonnay at a reasonable price... thinking about just buying some frozen juice.... and then going through the whole process including MLB fermentation. looking to create some diacetyl... Come on guys we can figure this out...

 

[joeswine]

Laxarwolf, if you want to soften up the Chardonnay, add tannins to the secondary ( not primary) .
Let it sit for a couple of weeks before adding the chems.
No mlf.

 

[sour_grapes]

So another idea for a buttery chardonnay at a reasonable price... thinking about just buying some frozen juice.... and then going through the whole process including MLB fermentation. looking to create some diacetyl... Come on guys we can figure this out...

(I hope this is not a duplicate post....)

What kind of frozen juice are you thinking of, @laxarwolf ? If you mean frozen Chardonnay juice, like from winegrapesdirect or the equivalent, then, sure, you can certainly put that through MLF. I am not sure about the "reasonable price" part. Did you have a different kind of source in mind for frozen juice?

 

[Digital-monk]

Thanks for all the ideas in the thread. It is a long read, but I have read through most of it. Would be nice to have a post for each varietal with the options or recommendations for each. I live in Canada and get great pricing on lower end kits from Vineco like “on the house” and the original series. I’ve done the OTH California white and red with the tweaks mentioned. Looking forward to the results. Thanks Joe!

 

[joeswine]

All you have to do is ask or text me privately .
It's is a good though however some my think it cuts off other people from having or adding their view points to the mix.
I could try it ? What you say?

 

[jpwatkins9]

Joe recommended the Grapefruit zest for my Rose’ a while ago, worked out great. Have tweaked that tweak by changing the amounts and also adding a bit of Lemon or Tangerine. Also works great with Chablis. Have found that 2 tablespoons is about right.

 

[Digital-monk]

All you have to do is ask or text me privately .
It's is a good though however some my think it cuts off other people from having or adding their view points to the mix.
I could try it ? What you say?

Joe - I hear what you’re saying. The collaboration in this thread is great, and we wouldn’t want to lose that. As new ideas emerge they could be incorporated. I am thinking that it could outline a general guideline for white/red/cooler and then a list of options for varietals etc. Here’s an example to illustrate from what I remember reading this thread:

White wines
Primary

• Prepare the wine to 5 gallons rather than 6.
• Measure SG and target 1.10 (about 13.75% ABV when finished). Add simple syrup to bring up to this level.
• Acid levels maybe a little low if sugar was added, or kit needs some help. Citrus zest can help add structure. The zest from 1/2 a grapefruit is a good addition to most, and the flavor doesn’t come through to the finished wine. Lemon can also be used, but will impart flavors more than grapefruit. Zest is powerful, don’t overdo it. Consider putting in a cheesecloth so it can be removed when taste is as desired.
• Tannins - most whites don’t need any. Bold grapes like Chardonnay may benefit from some. 1 tsp - 1 Tbsp.
• Oak - similar to acid and tannins will help add structure in the primary. Secondary oak will add flavor.
• Flavor pack: Consider adding a F-Pack that aligns with the profile of the wine base. Saute with some wine base. See posts for examples.
• Yeast - most kits come with EC-1118, which is one of the most tolerant of ABV and temperature without needing nutrients to finish fermentation. Other yeast strains will change flavor profile, but may need a little more care.

Secondary

• More subtle flavor additions here....etc

 

[joeswine]

The problem is all MFG. Kits at different prices points are different.
Profiles are different depending on the style and type of wine yet alone the subjectiveness of each individuals taste and preference.
I've have been asked in the past to write an ebook. I had a company out in California wanting to help, I never went through with it.
I can write a profile on how to make and correct wine , I rather help my fellow wine makers instead.

 

[akron]

Joe - I hear what you’re saying. The collaboration in this thread is great, and we wouldn’t want to lose that. As new ideas emerge they could be incorporated. I am thinking that it could outline a general guideline for white/red/cooler and then a list of options for varietals etc. Here’s an example to illustrate from what I remember reading this thread:

White wines
Primary

• Prepare the wine to 5 gallons rather than 6.
• Measure SG and target 1.10 (about 13.75% ABV when finished). Add simple syrup to bring up to this level.
• Acid levels maybe a little low if sugar was added, or kit needs some help. Citrus zest can help add structure. The zest from 1/2 a grapefruit is a good addition to most, and the flavor doesn’t come through to the finished wine. Lemon can also be used, but will impart flavors more than grapefruit. Zest is powerful, don’t overdo it. Consider putting in a cheesecloth so it can be removed when taste is as desired.
• Tannins - most whites don’t need any. Bold grapes like Chardonnay may benefit from some. 1 tsp - 1 Tbsp.
• Oak - similar to acid and tannins will help add structure in the primary. Secondary oak will add flavor.
• Flavor pack: Consider adding a F-Pack that aligns with the profile of the wine base. Saute with some wine base. See posts for examples.
• Yeast - most kits come with EC-1118, which is one of the most tolerant of ABV and temperature without needing nutrients to finish fermentation. Other yeast strains will change flavor profile, but may need a little more care.

Secondary

• More subtle flavor additions here....etc

Good idea. I have been picking through the posts to find some generic tweeks that have been successful. A list like this would help and it could be tailored to the specific wine profile, etc.

 

[joeswine]

No not a good idea, the way this thread works and this wine forum has grown is by everyone talking and sharing.
If I wanted to create a how to book I would have.
Here's how it has worked, I've listened to questions asked and then replied over the course of months and years I've heard the same people answering other people's questions in my voice , got it ? That means I've gotten through that's how this forum has developed and matured.
That is a good feeling knowing that you've contributed to the growth of others in this craft.
Just ask , listen and learn, in time you'll understand the how ,when and why and then be able to pass it on. Just my thoughts.

 

[Digital-monk]

Alright - new Vineco Original Series Sauvignon Blanc. Pitching today.

I’m thinking:
Prepare the wine to 5 gallons rather than 6.

Measure SG and target 1.09 (about 13.5% ABV when finished). Add simple syrup to bring up to this level.

The zest from 1/2 a grapefruit

Anything else?

 

[joeswine]

D,+++ do you enjoy hi acholo wines if so your on target I would have drought it down to 12% my self , and 2 teaspoons of the zest , Less is more, are you using the ec1118? No problem there.
Thoughts?

 

[Digital-monk]

Using ec1118. Since at 6 gallons it’s supposed to be 12.5% it’s already alittle high. At 5 gallons it was about 1.1 SG. I suppose I could stop ferment a little early at like 1.0 so that it doesn’t get too hot. Any thoughts?

 

[sour_grapes]

Using ec1118. Since at 6 gallons it’s supposed to be 12.5% it’s already alittle high. At 5 gallons it was about 1.1 SG. I suppose I could stop ferment a little early at like 1.0 so that it doesn’t get too hot. Any thoughts?

The home winemaker doesn't really have an effective way to stop a fermentation. Better to adjust the starting SG to your desired ABV. If you want to sweeten, do that on the back end.

 

[joeswine]

D... you should take a readings at All stages of the process, usually at 5,5 gallons mark then decide which way I want the flow to go.

to all:: another r way of stopping the fermentation is to add potassium sorbate with additional sugar that will stop the yeast from reacting.

 

[Digital-monk]

Thanks joe. Going with it for now. If it’s too hot I’ll get another kit and blend the two, but I think it’ll be just fine. Thanks for the help!

 

[joeswine]

it takes time to get it all together and yes on the next one you'll know the pit falls and it may turne out to be just fine.

 

[mhopkins]

Okay, I am a bit off topic, as this is not about a kit. On a whim, I decided to make a 6-gallon batch with Welch's grape juice - store bran, but 100% grape juice without the additives often found in store-bought juices. Used oak: 1/2C French oak, medium toast and 4.5C American oak, untoasted. It's been aging since March 6. the nose is nice. And the finish is not bad. But between is AWFUL! Kinda tends toward a port flavor profile, but not good. Rather than tossing the batch (which was always a plan B) I am thinking to puree some dates and add to the carboy. Let is sit a couple of months and see how it turns out. That said, I am wide open to any advice, counsel, ideas.
Or, maybe this post doesn't even belong, since I am not working with a kit?