Other Tweeking Cheap Kits

[joeswine]

how about a Spanish Rose' Easy and good to the last drop a strawberry fpac adds a certain nuance to the finish

 

[oppyland]

Bottled the Wine Lovers (ABC Cork) kit with tweaks this afternoon, after bulk aging for about 3 months. Not my favorite variety - bought mostly for the Mrs and as giveaways - but it tastes pretty good!

 

[joeswine]

Looks clean, what type of base wine was it or just generic, did you do any tweaks ? Did it finish out semi dry or semi sweet?

 

[oppyland]

Looks clean, what type of base wine was it or just generic, did you do any tweaks ? Did it finish out semi dry or semi sweet?

Thanks! It was the medium body Wine Lovers kit. I shorted the water a bit starting SG 1.096, added zest from 1/2 grapefruit and an f-pac made with golden raisins. No oak or tannin for this batch. Added 60ml glycerin a week before bottling to help with body. I'd call it slightly off dry. Has a delicate flavor, maybe a bit citrusy. Not bad at all.

 

[my wine]

Bottled the Wine Lovers (ABC Cork) kit with tweaks this afternoon,

I've bought several of their kits, all medium bodied reds. All turned out good and some better. Tweaked all of them.

Your wine looks clean and light. What variety is it?

 

[oppyland]

I've bought several of their kits, all medium bodied reds. All turned out good and some better. Tweaked all of them.

Your wine looks clean and light. What variety is it?

Yes, their kits are pretty good considering the cost!

It's a Pinot Grigio - thought I said that in my post (doh)! Definitely on the lighter side, which I suppose is good considering the variety. Thanks!

 

[hawkwing]

I'm working on an Argentina Ridge Cabernet Sauvignon from Costco. I shorted the water and was expecting the acid to be high but it's low. As in 0.2% TA. Anyone seen this before?

 

[ArizonaWiner]

I have read many of the posts in this forum, and have a couple questions for clarification and my education:
1) Some people here say that adding glycerin will make the wine sweeter, others say not. I don't care for sweet wine, but always looking for a better tasting wine. Appreciate any thoughts.
2) I see some recommendations to only add enough water to a 6 gallon kit to make 5 gallons. What is the impact on sweet/dry and alcohol content?
3) My most recent wine is a WineXpert Shiraz. Starting SG was 1.075 and after 14 days it was at 0.996, which is the maximum recommended (less than 0.996) before racking to secondary. I tasted it after racking and seemed a bit on the sweet side. If I had left it in the primary longer, would the SG go down and would it be drier? How long is safe to let it stay in the primary bucket without having negative consequences? It has now been in the secondary for 3 weeks with 2 spirals of oak. Is there anything I could do now to make the wine less-sweet?
4) I see suggestions of adding raisins or blackberries or blueberries. I get that this will change the flavor profile, but does adding these things make the wine sweeter?
Appreciate all thoughts.

 

[hawkwing]

I have read many of the posts in this forum, and have a couple questions for clarification and my education:
1) Some people here say that adding glycerin will make the wine sweeter, others say not. I don't care for sweet wine, but always looking for a better tasting wine. Appreciate any thoughts.
2) I see some recommendations to only add enough water to a 6 gallon kit to make 5 gallons. What is the impact on sweet/dry and alcohol content?
3) My most recent wine is a WineXpert Shiraz. Starting SG was 1.075 and after 14 days it was at 0.996, which is the maximum recommended (less than 0.996) before racking to secondary. I tasted it after racking and seemed a bit on the sweet side. If I had left it in the primary longer, would the SG go down and would it be drier? How long is safe to let it stay in the primary bucket without having negative consequences? It has now been in the secondary for 3 weeks with 2 spirals of oak. Is there anything I could do now to make the wine less-sweet?
4) I see suggestions of adding raisins or blackberries or blueberries. I get that this will change the flavor profile, but does adding these things make the wine sweeter?
Appreciate all thoughts.

1) Not sure.
2) Generally most wines will ferment dry depending on the yeast and it's tolerance. If a wine is supposed to have 14.5% for a 6 gallon batch that is about 286g/L which is 2.39 lbs/gal or 14.34 lbs total. In 5 gallons this is 2.87 lbs/ gallon or 343.9 g/L (my chart is in metric as I live in Canada and besides it's easier to calculate in for lots of things). That gets you to 17% alcohol. If you are using yeast that goes that high it will go dry.
3) It will continue to ferment in the secondary just fine as long as you don't add any metabisulfites or sorbates.. That is definitely not reaching the alcohol tolerance of the yeast. You could wait and see what happens. Leaving it in the primary leaves it more susceptible to infections especially once it slows down. I believe a shiraz is intended to be a little sweet and not completely dry. I don't know of any tricks to make it less sweet if the SG is below 1.000.
4) I haven't played around with these so I can't speak from experience yet. I just added some grape skins and pulp to a wine this morning. I expect they add little sugar and if it can ferment dry it should not contribute to an overall sweetness change.

 

[oppyland]

Take these answers with a healthy grain of salt, since I know about 1% of most of the members here, but here are my responses:

1) I haven't noticed a huge difference in sweetness with glycerin, but I've only added it to a couple of batches so far. IMO, the improvement in mouth feel and body is well worth the possible slight increase in sweetness.
2) Some say shorting the water affects the acid balance, which could very well be true. When it comes to cheap kits, I wonder how much effort the vendor really puts into this. I have shorted water on several inexpensive kits, and they turned out pretty good. YMMV
3) 0.995 is pretty dry. It might go down a little more while it's in secondary. I usually bulk age for at least a few months, so I probably don't have much risk of incomplete fermentation.
4) It really depends on when you add them. If during fermentation, there will be little to no increase in sweetness.

 

[winemaker81]

I have read many of the posts in this forum, and have a couple questions for clarification and my education:

1) @oppyland's answer matches my own. Additionally, glycerin smooths off rough edges, such as a raw oak taste.

2) Part of winemaking is basic chemistry. If you have a concentrate intended to reconstitute to 23 liters, and you cut the water, the acid and sugar will be higher. It's a simple equation.

For cheap kits, shorting the water works as the kits are often not well balanced. There is a certain amount of "you get what you pay for" with inexpensive kits, and this thread is all about how to adjust them. The tips are extremely valuable.

OTOH -- WE, RJS, FWK, and some others (with which I have no experience) are well balanced. Shorting the water throws them out of balance. Personally, shorting a WE kit is a mistake. I've had 2 kits way out of balance in the last few years, so I no longer short the above named kits.

3) 0.996 is probably dry, and what you're tasting is fruit, not sugar. While I can't guarantee that prognosis, IME it is correct. One option is to add oak cubes, probably 1 to 1.5 oz and age for 3 months, which will counteract the fruit.

Also keep in mind the wine is young. Don't bottle on kit schedule, e.g., don't bottle before 6 months. A lot happens during the first 3 to 12 months of a wine's life, and giving it a chance to normalize itself in bulk is not a wasted effort.

4) The sweetness of a wine is totally dependent on the residual sugar, combined with the acid level. I have a few bottles of a commercial Vignoles which is listed as a sweet wine, and according to the residual sugar, it is. But the acid is also high, so it tastes off-dry.

If you add an F-pack during fermentation and have yeast robust enough to survive the ABV, you'll get a dry wine. If you stabilize the wine (ferment dry + add sorbate & K-meta), then add the F-pack, you're going to have a sweet wine.

Keep in mind the focus of this thread -- tweaking cheap kits. WE is not a cheap kit; their low end kits are still decent quality, so a lot of the tips in this thread are not necessarily useful.

 

[joeswine]

I'm working on an Argentina Ridge Cabernet Sauvignon from Costco. I shorted the water and was expecting the acid to be high but it's low. As in 0.2% TA. Anyone seen this before?

It all depends on the oh you started with

 

[hawkwing]

It all depends on the oh you started with

Well it was supposed to be a 46 L kit or double 23 L. I made it into about 28-30 L total. Once I got my pH meter working (which required a long soak) it was 3.4. It’s fermenting away nicely now.

 

[MHSKIBUM]

I can buy cheap buckets of frozen wine must ($54 Cdn) that the purveyor says produces a palatable table wine. Not the greatest endorsement but I was wondering whether I could make half the batch and use the rest with grape skins to bump up my cheap wine kits. Has anyone tried that?

 

[joeswine]

What type of wine ( pino noir???) at that price I’d give it a try we can work it out together here on the forum, if you like.

 

[joeswine]

Well it was supposed to be a 46 L kit or double 23 L. I made it into about 28-30 L total. Once I got my pH meter working (which required a long soak) it was 3.4. It’s fermenting away nicely now.

Sounds like your ok for now ,3.4 isn’t bad for PH

 

[bstnh1]

The $65 "cheap" kit you start out with winds up costing about the same as buying a $96-$100 kit after you consider shorting the water, adding raisins, currants, tannin, oak, simple syrup and an f-pac.

 

[joeswine]

That could or could not be correct ?
However what it truly is your wine created by you and with the touches in it that’s your and yours alone,
Cost as much I can’t see it and if you’ve done these tweaks you’ll fined out the extra cost are Negligible To the fun you’ll have in the creative and learning experience

 

[joeswine]

The $65 "cheap" kit you start out with winds up costing about the same as buying a $96-$100 kit after you consider shorting the water, adding raisins, currants, tannin, oak, simple syrup and an f-pac.

Not every cheap it requires all of that and must of us have some of these items on hand . Don’t see the problem

 

[Kantuckid]

My daughter and I are working on Pinot Noir kit from Wine Lovers Online...the 11.5% kit. She wants sweet cherry in the foreground, lightly oaked and smooth finish. However, I'm having trouble finding sweet cherries to make an FPack. I'm thinking about getting a cherry puree from the LHBS. Thoughts?

I bottled a Wine Lovers Gamay Medium bodied kit 5/1/22. I dropped some water back from 23 liters as kits designed, added 1 cup of dried cherries (Meijers supermarket sells them-these were MI pie cherries but tasted slightly sweet in spite of not listed as having been sweetened) and a cup of dried cranberries in the fermenter along with 8oz of red grape concentrate to up %. As transferred from fermenter into 6 gallon/23 liter carboy we tasted it after the 2nd racking, having added a 2nd 8oz of red grape concentrate but stopped the fermentation as was after a back sweetened red wine and upping the sweetness a tad.
I was actually chasing the Lambrusco Riunite red that we buy for mixing with OJ for Sangria with meals. I have 30.5 btls.
I tasted the wine as I was checking my alcohol (12%) at bottling and I believe I nailed a semi-sweet red to emulate Lambrusco. In a month I'll drink some of the half btl in the fridge and see what I've really got. I'll post the final taste results here.

Next up is another WL's kit, the Zinfandel Blush as mentioned a few pages back in this thread.
I/m leaning toward a 5 gallon total ferment plus 8oz of the red grape concentrate to bolster the alcohol % and add flavor. Unlike the guy earlier I'll not add any rhubarb as of all the foods on earth it's one of a handful that turn my stomach.
I remain open to ideas for tweaking that kit? My wife is a Beringers White Zinfandel fan so that's what I'll be shooting for.

Tip of the day: For an interesting taste test, try Lambrusco's Emilia red wine. It's a fizzy on the tongue & has several flavors involved and makes a great Sangria! We pour in ~ 1/2 glass of (we use 50/50 OJ) OJ, 1/2 of wine, far better than any box or bottled Sangria by far.

I have this question about WL's kits-what makes the difference between a heavy or medium bodied kit using the same grape? Is it more (volume) of the grape concentrate or is it more concentrated?