RJ Spagnols Unacceptable kit odor in all RJS and WE

[Dans]

I'very tried kit wines at a local brew supply store and they tastedon't it similar. Not trying to insult anyone. Just convinced that kit wines are way overrated, results not suitable for my nor my wife's taste. Giving that I'm a home brewer I find kit wines making rather straight forward. Not there there isn't any room for error. Maybe it is just my palate, 'cause as opposed to crushed grapes, kit wines are not worth the money. In a way I'm criticizing it but also looking for opinions of others. Thanks everyone.

 

[jburtner]

Geranium odor or flavor is indicitive of combo of potassium sorbate and mlf. I have not had that odor in my kits but I also dont use the sorbate.

Did you by chance use the sorbate? It's not really recommended unless you are back sweetening and there are also other ways to prevent refermentation when back sweetening.

Cheers!
-jb

 

[Amanda660]

I'm 3 years in to this hobby and I've done everything from kits to grapes. Recently a friend took 2 of my wines to the wine show (Uncorked - 1450 AM). I found out he had as I was listening so I did panic a bit. They loved them and couldn't believe they were home done - both were cheap kits that I tweaked via the thread by Joeswine. Maybe its the water ???? but when 8 people (that taste commercial wine & talk about it every Friday for an hour) like my wine I'm sold. Whether you do kits, juice or grapes I look forward to reading your adventures in wine making!

 

[Dans]

Until recently I have used sorbate as it came with every dry wine kit. I read about the problem and stopped using it. I did notice a difference during bottling but it'seems too early to make judgements. Didn't use it in my crushed grape Cab. I gave WE Eclipse Cab Sav about 5 months ago. Put it in a barrel and only used K-meta. Again, too early to say

 

[Dans]

I'm 3 years in to this hobby and I've done everything from kits to grapes. Recently a friend took 2 of my wines to the wine show (Uncorked - 1450 AM). I found out he had as I was listening so I did panic a bit. They loved them and couldn't believe they were home done - both were cheap kits that I tweaked via the thread by Joeswine. Maybe its the water ???? but when 8 people (that taste commercial wine & talk about it every Friday for an hour) like my wine I'm sold. Whether you do kits, juice or grapes I look forward to reading your adventures in wine making!

Maybe it is water. I use same filtered city water (chlorine free) for my beers and other non kit wines

 

[Dans]

Try making wine with 'long life' pressed grape juice from cartons that have been pasteurized. or cold chill pressed grape juice. You will 'never' get that kit taste. It also appears that there is a percentage of kit wine makers that can pick up the kit taste at any time and others who cannot. I can. All my kit commercial kit wine tastes like how you describe and I have never ever used any additives apart from k-meta as a preservative.
40+ years ago I used to make kit wines. No 'KT' taste then . But the commercial concentration process is different now. Hence my reluctance to continue with them. I happily buy grape juice from the 'Walmarts' of the world and tweak them. No 'KT'.


It would be very interesting if all wine makers who do or do not taste 'KT' could take the 'thiourea taste test'. I would bet that would throw some light upon this rather elusive 'KT' continued debate.

Just opened up a bottle of that Californian 'Barefoot' merlot which is at the cheap end of our extensive UK market. Beats my Kendridge showcase Amarone, bottled for over a year which has 'Kt' and tastes far worse as a wine.

Thanks a lot for your input. I wonder how RJS, WE and others are addressing it if at all. I will certainly use your advice. I have to liquidate my 150+ inventory first.

 

[Dans]

Until recently I have used sorbate as it came with every dry wine kit. I read about the problem and stopped using it. I did notice a difference during bottling but it'seems too early to make judgements. Didn't use it in my crushed grape Cab. I gave WE Eclipse Cab Sav about 5 months ago. Put it in a barrel and only used K-meta. Again, too early to say

Just sampled the 5 month young Eclipse Cab Sav in a previously used barrel. Didn't use sorbate. It tastes very promissing. Compared it to the WE 2013 and EnPrimeur Cab aged in bottles. Huge difference!

 

[Mismost]

Interesting. We went to a tasting the other night, they had some nice wines I enjoyed. The last bottle was some famously expensive California Cab that was "to die for"...every one was ranting over it...I was gagging and said it was easily the worst one of the night. I was called about everything but my real name! But, it sucked.

As we were leaving, the guy pulled me aside and said sorry, that bottle had obiously turned. Why didn't he say that during the tasting? Because they want to sell wines. I have had "great" wines that weren't, in my opinion.

Point being, don't drink it if you don't like it. I am not trying to fool myself or anyone else with my kit wines. I am having fun and enjoying the results. Life is too short, take up scuba diving or cheese making.

 

[Dans]

Interesting. We went to a tasting the other night, they had some nice wines I enjoyed. The last bottle was some famously expensive California Cab that was "to die for"...every one was ranting over it...I was gagging and said it was easily the worst one of the night. I was called about everything but my real name! But, it sucked.

As we were leaving, the guy pulled me aside and said sorry, that bottle had obiously turned. Why didn't he say that during the tasting? Because they want to sell wines. I have had "great" wines that weren't, in my opinion.

Point being, don't drink it if you don't like it. I am not trying to fool myself or anyone else with my kit wines. I am having fun and enjoying the results. Life is too short, take up scuba diving or cheese making.

I agree and am a scuba diver since about 5 years.

 

[NorCal]

Make wine from grapes! Nothing like it.

 

[Dans]

Make wine from grapes! Nothing like it.

I did one batch from grapes. No problem with odors or kit tastes.

 

[dcbrown73]

SCUBA diving is still my absolute favorite experience in life.

 

[Tnuscan]

Same here on the smell/taste issue. I have invested lots of money and time trying to chase down the problem. I was so shocked that there were fewer people, than what I had expected, to have this issue. I really wish I didn't but I do.

I have never, I repeat never experienced this issue in my homemade fruit wines, bought bases in gallon jugs or cans, such as Vintners or in wines made from concentrates, (from grocery store) or wines made from grapes. Nor have I noticed it in a commercial wine. Not so much as a hint.

It is so strong (to me) that it covers the taste of the grapes used to make the kits.

I am super glad that most everyone doesn't experience this issue. I am also more than sure it it not a fault of your own. It is just the result that surfaces from the way they are processed. Some detect it while many don't. I am in no way bashing or trying to harm the sales or the Names of KITS or Kit Manufacturers.

I just wish I could enjoy them as the majority does. Wish you the best in your wine making journeys.

 

[wineh]

..opened a bottle around labor day weekend and the results were definitely satisfying already. Still young but didn't have the unpleasant kit taste and smell (I guess resembling geraniums).

You haven't been doing MLF on your kits have you? I find my Eclipse Lodi Ranch 11 Cab superior to Robert Mondavi's potato chip Cab in every way (and they come from the same appellation.
To get my wine opinion out of the mix, I gave a bottle of LE Nebbiolo to a vintage port collecting, fine scotch drinking, wino friend of mine and HE said it was as good as any $30.00 (Canadian) bottle of wine he buys at the local liquor store. I'm sorry your experience is so different.

 

[Dans]

Same here on the smell/taste issue. I have invested lots of money and time trying to chase down the problem. I was so shocked that there were fewer people, than what I had expected, to have this issue. I really wish I didn't but I do.

I have never, I repeat never experienced this issue in my homemade fruit wines, bought bases in gallon jugs or cans, such as Vintners or in wines made from concentrates, (from grocery store) or wines made from grapes. Nor have I noticed it in a commercial wine. Not so much as a hint.

It is so strong (to me) that it covers the taste of the grapes used to make the kits.

I am super glad that most everyone doesn't experience this issue. I am also more than sure it it not a fault of your own. It is just the result that surfaces from the way they are processed. Some detect it while many don't. I am in no way bashing or trying to harm the sales or the Names of KITS or Kit Manufacturers.

I just wish I could enjoy them as the majority does. Wish you the best in your wine making journeys.

I'm glad people like you admit to have the same issue I've described. Majority doesn't care or doesn't notice it. Good for them. We have the liberty of expressing our opinions about product to help the consumer as well as the kit manufacturers like RJS and WE in developing better product. If we are sure there is room for improvement in the product quality or the instructions (like skipping sorbate) than the manufacturer should hear about it. I'mean not afraid to criticize.

 

[Dans]

You haven't been doing MLF on your kits have you? I find my Eclipse Lodi Ranch 11 Cab superior to Robert Mondavi's potato chip Cab in every way (and they come from the same appellation.
To get my wine opinion out of the mix, I gave a bottle of LE Nebbiolo to a vintage port collecting, fine scotch drinking, wino friend of mine and HE said it was as good as any $30.00 (Canadian) bottle of wine he buys at the local liquor store. I'm sorry your experience is so different.

I've closely followed the provided instructions to get optimal results. Addition of malolactic bacteria was not something the manufacturers suggested nor mentioned as far as I know . Perhaps I should have experimented with it after I started noticing the issue. The dry fruit wines I have made prior to kit wines didn't have that problem. Before I got into kit wines I was assured by few supposedly experienced wine makers that kits like Lodi 11 will certainly beat Mondavi's Private Selection (not my favorite, used the name for comparison purposes). The result was very disappointing.

 

[Mismost]

SCUBA diving is still my absolute favorite experience in life.

***...then scuba! I know God lives in Heaven, but I'm pretty sure he vacations underwater. The most amazing creatures and colors are in the sea! The one thing that always gets me is just how noisy it is down there...bubbles, clicks, and clacks! Favorite spot so far...just off the coast of St. Kitts.

 

[Dans]

***...then scuba! I know God lives in Heaven, but I'm pretty sure he vacations underwater. The most amazing creatures and colors are in the sea! The one thing that always gets me is just how noisy it is down there...bubbles, clicks, and clacks! Favorite spot so far...just off the coast of St. Kitts.

Rotatan my favorite so far. Heading off to Curacu in Jan.

 

[Redbird1]

I don't think the derogatory use of terms like connoisseur and "supposedly experienced" are necessary to further the discussion. Nor is the insinuation that people are just in denial and don't care that their wine tastes bad and that you've come to open their eyes to the light. It should not be surprising that different people have different experiences, especially when it comes to wine. Tnuscan has a very constructive post going about the topic that would be a good read.

 

[dcbrown73]

***...then scuba! I know God lives in Heaven, but I'm pretty sure he vacations underwater. The most amazing creatures and colors are in the sea! The one thing that always gets me is just how noisy it is down there...bubbles, clicks, and clacks! Favorite spot so far...just off the coast of St. Kitts.

So far I've only dived (or dove if you prefer) in Grand Cayman. I plan to expand my new hobby to more locations.

As for the animals, it was a crazy experience. Turtles way larger than me would just swim right by me looking at me as they passed as if we passed each other on the street. Big ugly fish that were almost terrifyingly large watching you from a distance. I can't recall the name of the fish, but he was about 6' long and 4' tall with a kind of a pug nose.