Vineyard From the Beginning- Grapeman

[CK55]

Well, that makes a difference. I don't have the sun issue, but without the tubes, my first year vines this year reached the top wire and I was able to get a nice head with a couple of cordons. Now they are growing canes like nobody's business. I may let them bear next year on year 2, which I haven't ever done. But I think I've got the soil prep down fairly well, which resulted in some vigorous first year vines.

View attachment 50405

What rootstock?

I have a lot of different rootstocks planted in my vineyard
Malbec-5BB Kober
Alicante Bouschet- 101-14 3x replants on 1103p
Merlot-1103p
Cabernet Franc-1103p
Barbera-101-14
Carmenere-Riparia
Picardan-S04
Picpoul-so4
Nebbiolo-1103p

I want to grab petit verdot to make my Bordeaux vineyard whole.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

What rootstock?

I have a lot of different rootstocks planted in my vineyard
Malbec-5BB Kober
Alicante Bouschet- 101-14 3x replants on 1103p
Merlot-1103p
Cabernet Franc-1103p
Barbera-101-14
Carmenere-Riparia
Picardan-S04
Picpoul-so4
Nebbiolo-1103p

I want to grab petit verdot to make my Bordeaux vineyard whole.

It is America and 'own rooted'. A very vigorous vine, but it does seem to be more susceptible to the mildews than advertised. Or else I live on fungus acres, which is really the case (Ohio River Valley).

 

[CK55]

It is America and 'own rooted'. A very vigorous vine, but it does seem to be more susceptible to the mildews than advertised. Or else I live on fungus acres, which is really the case (Ohio River Valley).

What have you been controlling fungus with?

 

[Dennis Griffith]

What have you been controlling fungus with?

Various cocktails of mancozeb, captan, immunox, copper, neem oil, and serenade. I intend on starting next year earlier with a dormant oil. Fungus is bad here and effects everything that grows (even people). I grow fruit trees as well and it is a constant battle. I've actually considered cutting out some varieties of apple because I just never seem to get the upper hand. The America variety of grape that I grow seems to be the most susceptible to DM vs. the Buffalo and Concord. They only thing that I've grown that hasn't shown any signs of fungus are sweet potatoes.

 

[CK55]

Various cocktails of mancozeb, captan, immunox, copper, neem oil, and serenade. I intend on starting next year earlier with a dormant oil. Fungus is bad here and effects everything that grows (even people). I grow fruit trees as well and it is a constant battle. I've actually considered cutting out some varieties of apple because I just never seem to get the upper hand. The America variety of grape that I grow seems to be the most susceptible to DM vs. the Buffalo and Concord. They only thing that I've grown that hasn't shown any signs of fungus are sweet potatoes.

Im going to be honest several vinifera grapes on the right grafted roots can far better resist fungus. I don't have any fungus really being in California. Only one 40 year old vine is showing mild fungus which I've nearly cured. I do use neem as sort of a preventative measure for disease and pests. I'm more worried about bugs and birds than I am diseases.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

Im going to be honest several vinifera grapes on the right grafted roots can far better resist fungus. I don't have any fungus really being in California. Only one 40 year old vine is showing mild fungus which I've nearly cured. I do use neem as sort of a preventative measure for disease and pests. I'm more worried about bugs and birds than I am diseases.

I have my bug issues as well, mainly Japanese beetles. When they descend, they come by the bus load. I use either Garden Tech Sevin (not carbaryl) or Ortho Flower and Veggie bug killer to control them. I also treat the soil with milky spore in and around the vineyard. The America variety comes from Jaeger No. 43 x V. rupestris hybrid, so it shouldn't need to be grafted. I have thought about trying one just to see how it comes out. I have a bunch of fox grapes (V. labrusca) that would take over if I didn't chop out section of them every spring. The fox grape is native to this area where as the mountain grape is not.

 

[CK55]

I have my bug issues as well, mainly Japanese beetles. When they descend, they come by the bus load. I use either Garden Tech Sevin (not carbaryl) or Ortho Flower and Veggie bug killer to control them. I also treat the soil with milky spore in and around the vineyard. The America variety comes from Jaeger No. 43 x V. rupestris hybrid, so it shouldn't need to be grafted. I have thought about trying one just to see how it comes out. I have a bunch of fox grapes (V. labrusca) that would take over if I didn't chop out section of them every spring. The fox grape is native to this area where as the mountain grape is not.

Cool yeah, even though we have never had phylloxera where I live all my vines are completely resistant and my Malbec is resistant to both types of phylloxera 100%. So I'm not too worried about anything other than possibly sharpshooters as this local company brought in some fruit trees that were infested and we had a outbreak a few years back. Where I'm at is a coastal maritime climate but also Mediterranean. Because of that I have warm days and cool nights which really makes a difference towards ripening and balancing the acidity and whatnot. I hope once my new vines get going I get good wine.

 

[grapeman]

This back and forth discussion is good but I want to point out that the point of this thread is to document the way I used here in upstate NY where we have high disease pressure and extremely cold conditions. While there is no right or wrong way to do most things, this is how I did it here and it works well. Don't assume it will work well everywhere. Practices need to be adjusted depending on your area and conditions. Here it would be a disaster to rely on rootstock selections (not talking about bareroot varieties here, but rootstock). Rootstock might have a very slight resistance to disease but individual varieties can be more reliable. Some hybrids have higher resistance than others, but rarely will you find one resistant to everything.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

This back and forth discussion is good but I want to point out that the point of this thread is to document the way I used here in upstate NY where we have high disease pressure and extremely cold conditions. While there is no right or wrong way to do most things, this is how I did it here and it works well. Don't assume it will work well everywhere. Practices need to be adjusted depending on your area and conditions. Here it would be a disaster to rely on rootstock selections (not talking about bareroot varieties here, but rootstock). Rootstock might have a very slight resistance to disease but individual varieties can be more reliable. Some hybrids have higher resistance than others, but rarely will you find one resistant to everything.

I feel your pain. I'm in Ohio and am starting to thinking I'll just have to live with mildews. As long as they are controlled and don't effect the health of the vines (or crop), I just need to feel ok. They will never completely go away as I am only one rain away from a new infestation. We have much of the same conditions except you get more lake effect snow and may be slightly colder. Thanks for making the effort to do this thread as it takes time and is valuable to compare notes and procedures.

 

[CK55]

I feel your pain. I'm in Ohio and am starting to thinking I'll just have to live with mildews. As long as they are controlled and don't effect the health of the vines (or crop), I just need to feel ok. They will never completely go away as I am only one rain away from a new infestation. We have much of the same conditions except you get more lake effect snow and may be slightly colder. Thanks for making the effort to do this thread as it takes time and is valuable to compare notes and procedures.

Yep, it's a battle. But you have to fight it. Frost and fungus and phylloxera are the biggest threats to vines. France in the 1950's lost 75% of all Malbec I believe it was to frost.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

Yep, it's a battle. But you have to fight it. Frost and fungus and phylloxera are the biggest threats to vines. France in the 1950's lost 75% of all Malbec I believe it was to frost.

I'm hoping that I'm past phylloxera this year. I treated early in spring and have kept the sprays up. So far no sign, so I have my fingers crossed. Right now it's the battle of the mildews as it has been raining every other day and the humidity is high.

 

[CK55]

I'm hoping that I'm past phylloxera this year. I treated early in spring the spring and have keep the sprays up. So far no sign, so I have my fingers crossed. Right now it's the battle of the mildews as it has been raining every other day and the humidity is high.

That is not good, just do your best, to keep the fungus at bay.

 

[Wijngaard]

Signed up just to tell you I enjoyed reading this.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

That is not good, just do your best, to keep the fungus at bay.

Just to let you know, I had no sign of phylloxera this year. I think I finally have my sprays close to where I want them. Now to get rid of that pesky downy.

 

[CK55]

Just to let you know, I had no sign of phylloxera this year. I think I finally have my sprays close to where I want them. Now to get rid of that pesky downy.

I got a nasty bit of powdery mildew in california because out of nowhere with no forcasted rain it dumped like 3-4 inches and all the vines got wet and then it was hot and humid the next day and mildew just started exploding everywhere. I took care of it though. Treated it right away.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

I got a nasty bit of powdery mildew in california because out of nowhere with no forcasted rain it dumped like 3-4 inches and all the vines got wet and then it was hot and humid the next day and mildew just started exploding everywhere. I took care of it though. Treated it right away.

Good deal. My biggest problem this year was downy mildew. We are at least 12 inches above normal for rain this year and every time it rained it got hot again. So hot and humid was the norm for us in 2018. By the way, I've been investigating vinifera varieties and haven't found one yet that I like that is Zone 6 and colder hardy. Cab Franc is zone 6, but I'm not sure is it is hardy enough.

 

[CK55]

Good deal. My biggest problem this year was downy mildew. We are at least 12 inches above normal for rain this year and every time it rained it got hot again. So hot and humid was the norm for us in 2018. By the way, I've been investigating vinifera varieties and haven't found one yet that I like that is Zone 6 and colder hardy. Cab Franc is zone 6, but I'm not sure is it is hardy enough.

It is quite hardy, Cabernet Franc is both cold and heat tolerant as wineries here in areas that hit 120F regularly are growing it. Its probably one of the most hardy vines because it isnt susceptible to that many diseases compared to other vines.

 

[balatonwine]

It is quite hardy, Cabernet Franc is both cold and heat tolerant as wineries here in areas that hit 120F regularly are growing it. Its probably one of the most hardy vines because it isnt susceptible to that many diseases compared to other vines.

True.

But, tolerant range is not the same as ideal wine making range.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

Quite true, which is why the hesitance. As an example, I planted 2 apricot trees many years ago which have never produced a single fruit. The trees do well, but the blooms never go anywhere. I blame it on our erratic spring. Also, it's 26 F outside this morning and it's only fall. Winter will be here soon and it always makes me more selective. I've had too much other stuff die out do to winter (kiwis, figs, etc.). I just planted 2 nectarine trees this fall in hopes of fruit, but time will tell. Which brings us back to grapes, the charts list us in Zone 6 or 6A, depending on what source you use. To do well here, something hardy to Zone 5 is a smart choice. Around the lakes, the water stabilizes the temps somewhat. so the vines don't get hammered unexpectedly. Here in frost (or fungus) hollow, we have to pick hardy. I would like to find a hardy (Zone 5) red vinifera. But then again, I'd also like to find a hardy muscadine as well. I suppose I have more acres and common sense.

 

[CK55]

Quite true, which is why the hesitance. As an example, I planted 2 apricot trees many years ago which have never produced a single fruit. The trees do well, but the blooms never go anywhere. I blame it on our erratic spring. Also, it's 26 F outside this morning and it's only fall. Winter will be here soon and it always makes me more selective. I've had too much other stuff die out do to winter (kiwis, figs, etc.). I just planted 2 nectarine trees this fall in hopes of fruit, but time will tell. Which brings us back to grapes, the charts list us in Zone 6 or 6A, depending on what source you use. To do well here, something hardy to Zone 5 is a smart choice. Around the lakes, the water stabilizes the temps somewhat. so the vines don't get hammered unexpectedly. Here in frost (or fungus) hollow, we have to pick hardy. I would like to find a hardy (Zone 5) red vinifera. But then again, I'd also like to find a hardy muscadine as well. I suppose I have more acres and common sense.

Go ahead and give cab franc a try. It won't hurt to plant like 10. Which will give you a carboy or 2 about 5-10 gallons.