when good wines gone bad

[joeswine]

NOTICE TO THE PLUM


SIRS,noticed you have a plum wine in your fine collection,have you made a holiday wine with it yet using extracts?

extracts.. can be very inventive and creative items in your tool box.................. you just have to think outside the box....it doesn't matter to me if its a high end kit or starter kit or fresh juice,,they can be all finished to your liking at least I believe they can you need the tools and the desire and some knowledge to try....

 

[joeswine]

SPOILED ROTTEN>...

what I'm trying to do here is put down all the times, I tried and failed, but most of all my desire to fined out how to correct the problem in the future or at least correct it,in this craft we chose as a hobby.after a while its not how much wine you have in carboys or barrels to me its how much is really good enough to send out across country enter in contest and send to people, like you and ask for a honest evaluation,

Hopefully you'll follow me on some adventures I've had and take with you the theory of (think outside the box)

 

[joeswine]

tangerine & orange voignier

ZESTING AT ITS BEST

Went to the general store2 weeks ago,was reviewing what they had I ask the owner about a wine in kit but couldn't remember there correct tittle,he let me use his computer and I search ,what a great variety on fruited wines out there,well I found a kit with orange & tangerine voignier,I thought,what a great combo,so on the way home I stop at the shop rite and picked up the two fruits I needed to changevoignier from a good wine (of which I have a lot of) to a very tasty wine by adding the zest of 8 tangerines and 4oranges to the mix..very bright already in taste ,.only cost $45/for the juice and 6 for the fruit,and added a whole different taste to my collection..

 

[Sirs]

Actually I hadn't even thought of that... plum is a holiday fruit of sorts. I guess the thiing now is to think of what I can do to go outside the box with it so to speak got some research to do now.

NOTICE TO THE PLUM


SIRS,noticed you have a plum wine in your fine collection,have you made a holiday wine with it yet using extracts?

extracts.. can be very inventive and creative items in your tool box.................. you just have to think outside the box....it doesn't matter to me if its a high end kit or starter kit or fresh juice,,they can be all finished to your liking at least I believe they can you need the tools and the desire and some knowledge to try....

 

[joeswine]

Zesting

hope to be placing pics online soon

 

[joeswine]

Zesting

Lost a post some were,with the PLUM,extracts of cinnamon,and orange,truly holiday spirits

 

[Tom]

ZESTING AT ITS BEST

Went to the general store2 weeks ago,was reviewing what they had I ask the owner about a wine in kit but couldn't remember there correct tittle,he let me use his computer and I search ,what a great variety on fruited wines out there,well I found a kit with orange & tangerine voignier,I thought,what a great combo,so on the way home I stop at the shop rite and picked up the two fruits I needed to changevoignier from a good wine (of which I have a lot of) to a very tasty wine by adding the zest of 8 tangerines and 4oranges to the mix..very bright already in taste ,.only cost $45/for the juice and 6 for the fruit,and added a whole different taste to my collection..

When do you add? Primary, secondary or after stabilizing.

 

[joeswine]

Zesting

WHEN TO ADD

ZEST is a a very good media to work with,never in the primary ,but you can layer the flavoring after that anytime,secondary to start the essence ,addition later on in the third racking to add more ,if your taste buds deam so,or the addition of other flavors after primary,there are no rules with this ,just results,and ideas..

 

[Lurker]

Joe, what a great thread. You reminded me of most of what I forgot from our meeting. I had planned on using zest and then put it aside. Now I have 2 carboys of Chilean Chianti from May of 2010. One is oaked the other was started with raisins. I'll put the oaked one into gal jugs and add a diff. zest to each gal. It sounds like a great experiment. See you at the next meeting.

Richard L.

 

[joeswine]

CHANITI AND ITALIAN FAVORITE

Good to hear from you and yes just like one of our meetings only on a larger scale,how is the one with the raisins doing so far?how long have you had them in there? how dry are you going to make them?
The raisin one by itself should be quite good as a stand alone,remember to layer a little oak into the process,and a little more kmet at the end to assure fermentation will not start again, with the addition of the raisins you need to be sure.

What type of zest are you thinking of adding if you zest? to the second half or am I going ahead of you? OR WOULD A GOOD BLACKBERRY FPAC BE BETTER?

 

[JohnT]

My through is that life is too short to drink bad wine. Rather then expend time and energy on fixing a bad wine, I thinking is that one should spend time on determining exactly WHY the wine went bad (and how to ensure that is never happens again).

If the wine is truly bad, in most cases, no matter what you do will result in doctored up bad wine. Again, I say in most (but not all) cases.

Your bad wine is taking up equipment that could be used to make that really great bottle of wine.

In short, I say that you should learn the lesson that the bad wine is trying to teach you, then dump it in favor of making a wine that is more drinkable.

(this is only my humble opinion).

 

[robie]

I understand what you are saying, John. Live and learn. The lesson learned really sticks with you if you see the mistake swirling down the drain.

You would be surprised at how many near disasters occur in wine country, disasters we never hear about, but we end up drinking and enjoying the final results. Of course it is a different situation when the disaster is 5,000 gallons from a prize winning vineyard. They have a motto that one never gives up on a troubled batch of wine. You would be amazed at what can be done to fix it. The end result possibly should have been a wonderful $40 bottle but ends up a $10 porch pounder, but salvaged just the same.

There are a lot of things that can be done to salvage a fermentation gone wrong. (I know from personal experience.) For me, and speaking just for me, I consider it a challenge to see what I can do to fix it. Maybe I am just stubborn!

 

[JohnT]

Robie,

I understand what you are saying.

Your attempts to save the wine are stemming from a professional situation. You have a vast investment in 500gal of wine, and a winery only makes wine but once a year. This, I believe is the center of what you are saying... you need to protect your investment.

I am (more or less) a wine school/club. We make large amounts that I too would do just about anything to save. I am also not saying that dumping the wine (in all cases) is the best thing. But in a lot of cases (such as oxidation) the effort is not worth the reward.

For the home winemaker, however, is it worth killing youself over 5 gal of wine only to end up with a porch pounder? My thinking is that I would prefer to dump the proch pounder when I know I could be spending my time making something that is simply fantastic.

 

[robie]

I hear you again, nothing whatsoever wrong with your approach.
But like I said, I may be a little stubborn (proud?).

Besides, my wife would kill me if she knew I had to pour $100 to $200 worth of must down the drain.

 

[tonyt]

+ one, what Robie said.
I acquired a 18 month old Brunello kit recently. When I poured it into the primary I almost cried. It was brown and had a very off smell. Folks on the forum encouraged me to proceed and try to work with it. I did. Got it off the lees a bit early. Have dome an extra racking. Degassed till the cows came home and have added a French spiral to sweeten it up. It's very clear but still just a bit off color. The taste is considerably better than I expect at this point given the beginning. In fact my wife didn't believe it was the "bad Brunello" but thought it was another one that I have aging. I had planned to bottle it rather than bulk age it. At Joeswine's suggestion I am going to give it a few months in barrel and let it concentrate and mellow. With the brownish tint I know it won't win any awards and I won't be giving any as gifts but we will have 30 fine tasting Brunello for pizza nights.

"Never give in. Never, never, never, never -- in nothing, great or small, large or petty -- never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense."
W.C.

 

[Rocky]

I have to agree with Tony and Robie. I am a disciple of Joeswine and I am having a ball working with wines that do not quite satisfy. I can give two quick examples of what I have done, a couple I am doing and one that I plan to do. First was a Sangiovese, a 10 liter kit from Wine Expert. I was disappointed in the taste and the "mouth" of the wine and thought, "Oh Well, it is just two cases. We will just have to suffer through it." Then I became acquainted with Joe on a forum and he showed my how to "think outside the box" and there are no hard and fast rules. In order to enhance the taste and improve the mouth of the wine, I ended up liquifying some Blackberry jam and adding it to the wine. It is one of the best wines I have ever made or tasted, for that matter. A second was a Riesling that tasted kind of flat to me. I recall the "green apple" taste that I used to experience when I was stationed in Germany. I got some Granny Smith apples, juiced them in a juicer and added it to the wine (after sorbating). The wine is very nice.

I am currently making a Sauvignon Blanc and a Chardonnay-Semillon to both of which I added a pound of white raisins and I plan to enhance further with citrus extract. George has a Meglioli Malvasia Bianca on Special this month. I plan to buy one, make about 4 gallons of the wine and two gallons of Vin Santo.

Joe, you have created a monster!

 

[JohnT]

The most important thing is that you fellas are happy.

For myself, I do not like the taste of fruit blended wines. I much rather spend my time creating a classic gem then tie up equipment and money on something that I know I will not like.

 

[joeswine]

HELLO JOHNT

THE idea here is not to waste anytime on a wine that can't be reworked,never said that ,but to take a product that's not what you thought it would be or how you expected it to turn out and adjust it,I know 3 wine masters here in southern new jersey who are sitting wine wine and are trying to figure out how to correct the rocket fuel on made the flat taste another made and the last one what happened to it? and you can bet their not going to toss ther product out were taling couple of hundred gallon batches good friends of mine all of them excellent wine makers with degrees from cal.davis and the other head of dept. of agriculture /wine side for new jersey...


I agree with you why waste your time on bad wine,that's not what this thread is about,thinking outside the box is a catch Fraze I believe in and employ only because I don't know anyone who hasn't made a wine whether it be fruit,fresh juice or kit that hasn't ask him or herself at one time or another WHAT HAPPENED AND WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE?

I'm sure their are a lot of purist out there that don't agree with my tactics as was stated early on but you have to try and overcome the problems, us cellar dwellers have and that's what this is all about ,using the technics here are basic to wine making and have been employed and used by wine makers through the decays in one fashion or the other,if you think about what has been put forth here its not that hard to correct a wine problem,and it might just work.


Glad to see that this thread has sparked a conversation in a constructive manor,that is what this form is all about and would like to here more pros and cons ,but know matter how you cut it if you think out side the box when you have a problem,and ask what if ,you'll get a reply.

 

[robie]

Let's just all remember that there is no right or wrong, here. Just a bunch of guys and gals with differing opinions.

It's wine making fun!!!!!! It's an expression of our individuality. I wouldn't have it any other way

 

[JohnT]

I agree that there is no right or wrong here.

Also, I am also NOT saying that my opinion is the only, correct way to think about this.

That being said, let me add some more clarification on what I am saying......

From may point of view, for the professional (I have many pro friends and relatives in Europe) that the dammage to your reputation as a winery will always far exceed the money you would save by doctoring up bad wine.

It is along with quality, it is reputation that drives the price of wine. If one suffers on either of those two points, then a winery can not survive.

This is also true in the beer trade. I remember seeing (recently) a reality show that covered the Dogfish Head brewery. In one episode, they dumped an entire production run down the drain rather than send out inferior beer.

For the home winemaker, there is no harm in either way you decide to go on this. I always believed that I would never drink nor serve a bad wine that has been doctored up. Given this, anything I do would be a waste of time and equipment.

Again, this is just my personal philosophy, and not intended to belittle or look down on others having a differenct opinion.


drink and be happy.