When is a wine ready to drink

[jgmann67]

This will be my third season making wine from grapes. In 2016, I did a Petit Sirah and in 2017 I jumped in the deep end with Cab, Merlot and Petit Verdot. This year I'm making OVZ.

My wife an I were having this debate the other night. She thinks I should stop making wine from grapes (WFG) until I figure out whether it is better than wine-from-kits. I told her that was nonsense (in a nice way of course). WFG should turn out a better product and it's just matter of waiting for a wine to mature. If I stopped making WFG that would leave a hole in my production that would take another year to make up. Besides, I'm still making kits the rest of the year.

So, we're going to continue on the path we staked out. But, in your experience, how long does it take for these wines to shine? I'm thinking at least 3, maybe , years.

 

[NorCal]

The wines you made from grapes are not early drinkers and time does them wonders. I think your 3 year number is a good one.

 

[pgentile]

So many factors involved. Unfortunately I've only been making wine for a little over five years and for the first three years not many bottles have survived for aging. But things like petite sirah, cab, zin etc might not reach their peak until 5 years +. I started making wine from frozen concentrates, then kits and fruit, then juice buckets, then a lug with buckets then all grapes. Now primarily all grape batches with juice bucket fillers.

To me and this only my opinion from my wine. But all grape and juice buckets are much more approachable and drinkable young than kits and all of my grape batches have been better than any of the kits I have done at every stage. Mostly eclipse kits. Some of those kits were good. Just not as good as the all grape batches.

again no knock on kits just my opinion.

 

[Johnd]

It certainly depends upon the type of wine you are making, as well as your individual process and taste. For instance, a gently handled sangiovese wine would probably be approachable sooner than a small berried petite sirah on which you used highly effective extraction techniques, vigorous punchdowns, and hard pressing. My personal observations are that most professional winemakers / commercial wineries release their wines to public roughly 2 years after harvest, that is some indication of when they believe that the wine is fit for public consumption, though they will improve for many years. Many French wines are completely closed and not very pleasing for 5 years or more.

My experience with what we do as home winemakers is in line with your assertion, 2 - 3 years or more. Big changes noted in in the 1-2 year time frame seem to be pretty consistent in my wines, and the 3+ wines are really good. My personal belief is that, given good fruit, you'll make much better wine with grapes than with kits, it just takes longer to get the supply chain rolling. We made a lot of kits in the first few years, they are quite nice and we drink them regularly while letting the WFG wines sit in the cellar and get some years on them.

 

[Donz]

This will be my third season making wine from grapes. In 2016, I did a Petit Sirah and in 2017 I jumped in the deep end with Cab, Merlot and Petit Verdot. This year I'm making OVZ.

My wife an I were having this debate the other night. She thinks I should stop making wine from grapes (WFG) until I figure out whether it is better than wine-from-kits. I told her that was nonsense (in a nice way of course). WFG should turn out a better product and it's just matter of waiting for a wine to mature. If I stopped making WFG that would leave a hole in my production that would take another year to make up. Besides, I'm still making kits the rest of the year.

So, we're going to continue on the path we staked out. But, in your experience, how long does it take for these wines to shine? I'm thinking at least 3, maybe , years.

Aging wine is such and important factor but hard to do! We all want to enjoy our wine immediately but it needs time. I posted about barrel and bottle aging recently and both have such a great impact on the end result for big reds.

We opened a bottle of my 2016 Super Tuscan blend of Cab/Merlot/Sangiovese a few weeks ago and it was stunning! As a matter of fact, we had a 60 dollar bottle on the table that night and we felt it was comparable if not better. Problem is... I only have 6 bottles of my 2016 left from over 1200lbs of grapes that year.

I guess patience is key but very difficult. I have decided to up my production to 1900lbs and always try to drink older wines from previous years.

 

[salcoco]

high end wine kits especially those with grape skins require aging in the amount of 3-5 years also. wine from grapes also require this age time. to do quick drinking wine buy lower priced kit or venture into fruit wines. a apple/pear blend can compare well to a Riesling or Pinot Grigio ready to dink in three months.

 

[jgmann67]

For my reds, I always make high-end kits, heavy in oak and skins. I'm not concerned with being able to drink it quickly.

Today, I have a cache of 10-12 kits aging on the shelf (either in the bottle or in a carboy) - most are 1.5 years old or older. For these, I'm aiming at 2 years before I really start sampling (love the 375 bottles) and 3 years before they get in to rotation. I'll do WFG this month, then pick up making wine from kits once the OVZ is aging in a carboy (we're likely talking December or January).

This is more of an academic question - and the answer is as suspected... "it depends." I don't anticipate that the 2016, since I did a big, tannic PS and (thanks to @ceeaton) a PS/Zin blend, will be approachable until some time in 2020. The Cab, Merlot and PV blend might be ready at the same time because it's probably not as "big" a wine as a PS.

 

[Johnd]

For my reds, I always make high-end kits, heavy in oak and skins. I'm not concerned with being able to drink it quickly.

Today, I have a cache of 10-12 kits aging on the shelf (either in the bottle or in a carboy) - most are 1.5 years old or older. For these, I'm aiming at 2 years before I really start sampling (love the 375 bottles) and 3 years before they get in to rotation. I'll do WFG this month, then pick up making wine from kits once the OVZ is aging in a carboy (we're likely talking December or January).

This is more of an academic question - and the answer is as suspected... "it depends." I don't anticipate that the 2016, since I did a big, tannic PS and (thanks to @ceeaton) a PS/Zin blend, will be approachable until some time in 2020. The Cab, Merlot and PV blend might be ready at the same time because it's probably not as "big" a wine as a PS.

Sounds like a perfectly viable plan to me, drink up Jim!!!!!!!

 

[Boatboy24]

I'm drinking some of my 2015's now, but sparingly. FWIW, I haven't really touched the '15 Petite Sirah though. Most of it went into blends, but I think I had about a case of 100%. Pretty sure I've only sampled one or two.

 

[Kraffty]

a thought to share just to throw a wrench in the works. I've been drinking my 15 pinot noir lately and it's decent BUT, I don't think the issue is all about the years. 2015 was my first batch of all grapes and my experience level and the job I did with those grapes was completely different than the 2017 wines I have aging now. I agree with the 2 to 3 year as a basic starting number but there are so many things involved. Your 16 may never be as good as your 18 and I'm guessing you're a better winemaker this year than last.
Mike

 

[jgmann67]

I'm guessing you're a better winemaker this year than last.
Mike

I hope that’s true. Each year, I’m a little less unsure of myself and am better prepared for what may come.

 

[winemaker81]

There is no definitive answer to the question: which is better, fresh grapes or kits?

In my experience, there are 3 general levels of kits: Low ($60-$80 USD), Medium ($105-$130), and High ($160-$200), typically governed by the ratio of juice/concentrate. Prices are for my area, your mileage may vary. The kits are designed to be consistent quality so you'll make pretty much the same wine next year as last with the same kit (ignoring winemaker ability and fermentation factors). Grapes are a natural product so there will be variations, but in general the kits are consistent. And all three make wine that is at least acceptable (high end kits can make some really good stuff!).

Grapes? The variables are so numerous, including weather, soil, and if the grower went for quantity over quality. Fresh fruit is absolutely no indication of quality. If you have the highest quality grapes, you can make Chateau Petrus. If you don't, you can't. [I live in the Middle Atlantic USA ... following the torrential rain of Hurricane Florence, I'm not expecting much from the local grapes.]

IME, higher end kits are more likely to make a better table wine -- on average. However, high quality fresh fruit win every time. Hence, my assertion there is no real answer.

 

[winemaker81]

When is wine ready to drink?

Dang! That's probably the best way to start a fist fight among winemakers!

Define "ready to drink"? Does this mean acceptable for consumption, or aged to its best age?

Consider that 90%+ of the world's wine production is designed for consumption within 3 years. A lot of wines, especially whites, are quite drinkable 3 months after bottling. Some reds are as well, although 6 months is better (and a year is better yet). A surprising number of commercial wineries release last fall's whites in the spring and reds just before the next crush. Some of that is economic (need the space for the new crush) but a lot of the wine is quite drinkable when sold.

This follows on my last post regarding kits or fresh fruit being better. There are FAR too many variables to make a blanket answer.

Got a good, heavy red? Taste it a the year mark. Make a judgment and either start drinking or re-evaluate in a year. Repeat until no more bottles.

Practically speaking, there are only two ways for a home winemaker to age wine: 1) exercise extreme patience; and/or 2) make enough wine that we have something to drink while the ageable wines are doing their thing.

I do well at #1 until I fail. This makes #2 the better choice -- besides, it let's me play more with my favorite hobby, so it's a win on that front as well.

 

[winemaker81]

As long as I'm on a soapbox, keep in mind that wine ages faster in smaller containers. Unless you're barrel aging, bottle instead of bulk aging in glass or stainless steel. Experiment with bottling in 375ml, 750 ml, and 1.5l bottles. At the 1, 2, and 3 year marks -- compare them.

When using fresh fruit (grape or other) I typically use the standard rackings at 1 week, 3 weeks, and bottle at 3 months. Especially with modern fining agents, the wine is quite clear at the end of 4 months.

 

[tjgaul]

As long as I'm on a soapbox, keep in mind that wine ages faster in smaller containers. Unless you're barrel aging, bottle instead of bulk aging in glass or stainless steel. Experiment with bottling in 375ml, 750 ml, and 1.5l bottles. At the 1, 2, and 3 year marks -- compare them.

Yes . . . but aging in the carboy forcibly curbs any temptation to open a bottle prematurely now and then. This is a great deterrent to the pilfering of young wine.

 

[winemaker81]

Yes . . . but aging in the carboy forcibly curbs any temptation to open a bottle prematurely now and then. This is a great deterrent to the pilfering of young wine.

You might think that ... but you underestimate some folks.

I had a customer many moons ago, purchased 6 gallons of Niagara one fall. She brought samples in a few times, the wine progressed very nicely. She paid attention to the instructions I gave her and seemed to be doing fine. Long about February she came in after several months -- her wine is oxidized.

Turns out she and her husband didn't understand that bottling was a requirement, not an option. They had been taking wine from the carboy and drinking it, and at that point it was about half full.

There's not a lot to do at that point. I suggested hitting it with sulfite and bottling immediately, and to use the wine. They had planned on aging it a year, but the oxidation was advanced enough that I told them to simply use it up. Never saw her again after that ...

 

[balatonwine]

This Wine Folly chart may help:

 

[ceeaton]

This will be my third season making wine from grapes. In 2016, I did a Petit Sirah and in 2017 I jumped in the deep end with Cab, Merlot and Petit Verdot. This year I'm making OVZ.

My wife an I were having this debate the other night. She thinks I should stop making wine from grapes (WFG) until I figure out whether it is better than wine-from-kits. I told her that was nonsense (in a nice way of course). WFG should turn out a better product and it's just matter of waiting for a wine to mature. If I stopped making WFG that would leave a hole in my production that would take another year to make up. Besides, I'm still making kits the rest of the year.

So, we're going to continue on the path we staked out. But, in your experience, how long does it take for these wines to shine? I'm thinking at least 3, maybe , years.

I just opened a bottle of local Chardonel that I started six days short of three years ago. I know that whites age quicker (and die off quicker), but this is the first glass I've had of this in quite some time (I'm guessing last New Years day) and I can't believe how much it has changed for the better.

As far as the PS/Zin blend, if you drink all of yours rest assured that there will be some bottles in my basement (baring a catastrophe) for years to come. That wine is about as youthful and tannic tasting as I've ever had before. It think I may open one up around this time next year to celebrate it's birth, but other than that it is in a place I don't frequent, so unless you text me and say "you've gotta open a bottle because..." I won't open one.

 

[ceeaton]

I hope that’s true. Each year, I’m a little less unsure of myself and am better prepared for what may come.

As someone who has pushed and prodded you at times (as you have done to me), I think we have both become less unsure about our wine making, in part to the fact that our wines are becoming more and more drinkable. I raise my glass to you, Mr. Mann! Job well done. Let's keep pushing each other in the future, I'd love to retire and walk around a vineyard with my cane (or wheelchair).

Oh, and of course this site may have had something to do with it. (I feel like I'm making an Emmy speach).

 

[jgmann67]

I just opened a bottle of local Chardonel that I started six days short of three years ago. I know that whites age quicker (and die off quicker), but this is the first glass I've had of this in quite some time (I'm guessing last New Years day) and I can't believe how much it has changed for the better.

As far as the PS/Zin blend, if you drink all of yours rest assured that there will be some bottles in my basement (baring a catastrophe) for years to come. That wine is about as youthful and tannic tasting as I've ever had before. It think I may open one up around this time next year to celebrate it's birth, but other than that it is in a place I don't frequent, so unless you text me and say "you've gotta open a bottle because..." I won't open one.

Like the straight PS, the 750’s of the PS/Zin are still untouched. They’ll sit at least another year, more likely two. I have an armful of 375’s of both that will get me to when they’re ready.