Why does 6 gal = 3 gal in the end?

[TonyP]

My first fermentation usually has a good inch or so of yeast stuff.., super thick bubbles that sits on top. I call it gunk..

Gill, you may be getting something akin to a "cap"; skins, chips, and other solids are accumulating at the surface. To get the maximum benefit from these solids, stir them back into the wine frequently when you take your SG readings. Caps aren't typically a major issue with kits but it's best to stir anything back into the wine, anyway.

 

[cmason1957]

My first fermentation usually has a good inch or so of yeast stuff.., super thick bubbles that sits on top. I call it gunk..

EDIT: I now realize it's actually called Must. Now I know..

Next time, I'll siphon out everything I can, and save the rest in a refrigerator so I can pull out more wine.

One way to avoid that build-up of stuff on the top like that is to stir it all back in, twice a day or so. Usually for me, by the time it is ready to rack the top is relatively clear.

 

[Rocky]

My first fermentation usually has a good inch or so of yeast stuff.., super thick bubbles that sits on top. I call it gunk..

EDIT: I now realize it's actually called Must. Now I know..

Next time, I'll siphon out everything I can, and save the rest in a refrigerator so I can pull out more wine.

Hey Gill, welcome to the forum.

Losing 50% of your wine is not normal and I think we need to learn why you are generating so much sediment and losing so much wine. You said these are Merlot kits. so:

• Which manufacturer and which series kit?
• What do you use for the water that is required to be added, e.g. tap, distilled, spring, etc.?
• Did you add anything else, other than water, that did not come with the kit?
• How do you clean your carboys before starting a batch?
• What do you use for a primary fermenter?
• How do you clean the primary fermenter?

Let's try to get to the root cause of the issue.

 

[winemaker81]

When making a "6 gallon" kit, I typically rehydrate to 5.5 gallons. This is a common technique for members of this board.

The first racking, typically when the SG is 1.000 to 1.010, I do not worry about sediment. As mentioned above, the heavy stuff won't siphon anyway.

7-10 days later the fermentation is completely done (normally) and most of the heavy sediment has dropped. I rack again, this time taking some care when racking. I pour the remainder of the carboy (minus any heavy sludge that isn't flowing) into taller bottles, 750 ml to 1.5 liter wine bottles is normal. As other have mentioned, put in the fridge for a day or 2, then carefully pour off.

I use 5 gallon carboys so topping the carboy is not a problem. All additional wine goes into smaller bottles -- I keep a collection of various sizes from 300 ml up to 1.5 liter, and keep all topped up.

If short in any container, I open a compatible wine and top up the container. The remainder of that bottle goes to my table, where I use consumption to ensure it won't go bad.

 

[Riledup5]

When making a "6 gallon" kit, I typically rehydrate to 5.5 gallons. This is a common technique for members of this board.

@winemaker81 Just so I understand, the total volume in your primary container has only 5.5 gallons from the get go (when using a 6 gal kit)?

The first racking, typically when the SG is 1.000 to 1.010, I do not worry about sediment. As mentioned above, the heavy stuff won't siphon anyway.

You don't worry about how much sediment is racked into the carboy during your first racking? I am only on my 3rd kit and this is where I have found I lose a good chunk of wine. If I don't have to worry about how much sediment is racked from primary to secondary, I can save much more!

One more question, I just racked a sauv blanc for the second time. The kit instructions said to add 1/4 tsp of KMeta if bulk aging for 3 months or more. I did that, but I also know myself. I will probably want to bottle before that 3 months. With the addition of the KMeta, would it be a problem if I did bottle earlier? My guess is no. I think I have read that you can't taste the SO2 (or is it SO3? I don't remember) until it reaches 200ppm. And I think the 1/4 tsp is only 50 ppm. Is that correct?

As a newbie, I just want to make sure I am interpreting what you said correctly. Thanks

 

[my wine]

I take a piece of window type screen and fold it over the end of the racking cane and hold it there with a rubber band. All sanitized of course. Then I start racking from the middle and move the cane down. when the carboy is lighter I tilt it and keep racking. At the very end my cane is in the sediment but 95% or more remains in the carboy. but I get darn near every ounce.

It seems we each have our method.

 

[Scooter68]

As to the gunk - I don't leave it in the big carboy. I transfer it into the smallest containers that I have and fill them as full as possible. Best ones for me are the Kombucha 16 oz glass containers. Tall and slender. Then a turkey baster will pull the clear liquid off the top. I also refrigerate the bottles to settle things faster.

As to the 50% loss - WOW ! I don't lose that much with my pulpy-est fruit like peaches. For Peaches I will start with something around 4 1/2 to 4 3/4 gallons to get a 3 gallon wine batch. Sounds like you are rushing the job. Also As mentioned I built a little sloped stand that I set my carboys on for racking. Give them about a 20 degree tilt. ALSO very key is to move those carboys very carefully before the racking. It's very easy to stir thin finer lees up so if you can set the carboy on the sloped platform the night or day before racking then it should be settled down better.

With Fruit wines with a fruit bag I wring that puppy out very thoroughly and put that wine juice into the carboy when I do the racking from the bucket to the carboy (Before my fermentation is finished.) I actually take that bag out of the bucket first and wring it out back into the bucket or over a funnel into the carboy. Since fermentation isn't over the wine is going to be cloudy for a while anyway. Then I do the racking from the bucket and put the lees that were outside the fruit bag into the tall slender bottles. IF there is too much for that I'll put it in a 1/2 gallon container and put that in the fridge for a day or two.

Keep in mind I'm talking fruit wines not grape wines. Again I cannot imagine why grape wines would have a 50% volume loss. Once you press those grapes out there isn't much solid matter the liquid content vs fiber is far less in a grape than a peach or apple.

 

[Riledup5]

As to the gunk - I don't leave it in the big carboy. I transfer it into the smallest containers that I have and fill them as full as possible. Best ones for me are the Kombucha 16 oz glass containers. Tall and slender. Then a turkey baster will pull the clear liquid off the top. I also refrigerate the bottles to settle things faster.

As to the 50% loss - WOW ! I don't lose that much with my pulpy-est fruit like peaches. For Peaches I will start with something around 4 1/2 to 4 3/4 gallons to get a 3 gallon wine batch. Sounds like you are rushing the job. Also As mentioned I built a little sloped stand that I set my carboys on for racking. Give them about a 20 degree tilt. ALSO very key is to move those carboys very carefully before the racking. It's very easy to stir thin finer lees up so if you can set the carboy on the sloped platform the night or day before racking then it should be settled down better.

With Fruit wines with a fruit bag I wring that puppy out very thoroughly and put that wine juice into the carboy when I do the racking from the bucket to the carboy (Before my fermentation is finished.) I actually take that bag out of the bucket first and wring it out back into the bucket or over a funnel into the carboy. Since fermentation isn't over the wine is going to be cloudy for a while anyway. Then I do the racking from the bucket and put the lees that were outside the fruit bag into the tall slender bottles. IF there is too much for that I'll put it in a 1/2 gallon container and put that in the fridge for a day or two.

Keep in mind I'm talking fruit wines not grape wines. Again I cannot imagine why grape wines would have a 50% volume loss. Once you press those grapes out there isn't much solid matter the liquid content vs fiber is far less in a grape than a peach or apple.

Thank you @Scooter68 . With yours and many others help, I think I am starting to get a basic understanding of this intriguing process. Can't wait until I can actually enjoy the fruits of my labor! Just for clarification, I am not losing 50%. That was the OP. I am trying to figure out how to lose less than I currently am.

What's funny is that my wife bought me the beginners wine making kit from Northern Brewer (at my suggestion) for Christmas (do I have a good woman, or what?). This was to be just a small corner in an extra bedroom. Well, my little operation has grown to 4 carboys, the 1 primary, taken over a closet, taken over some of our garage fridge and now might take over a storage room to store the wine I am currently making and will make in the near future. I don't think she expected that, but hopefully she will enjoy the end result as much as I hope I do

 

[winemaker81]

Just so I understand, the total volume in your primary container has only 5.5 gallons from the get go (when using a 6 gal kit)?

At the time I wrote my last post (May 2020) I was diluting 23 liter kits to 21 or 22 liters total volume. However, since then I have changed my mind on that, as I have 2 red kits that are overly acidic. I wrote recently that in the future I will dilute 23 liter kits to 23 liters, and add other things to improve body. Diluting to a lesser volume is throwing the kit balance off.

I don't intentionally suck up sediment, but, I don't fuss if I suck some up. For kits, once the fermentation is done, kieselsol/chitosan is added and that sediment will be handled then. My goal is to not throw out good wine.

By the standards of a few folks here, I over-sulfite my wines. I added 1/4 tsp K-meta / 5 gallons at each racking and at bottling. If it's only been a few weeks since the last racking I may skip sulfite at bottling, but if it's been a month I add sulfite. In some cases I'm probably up to 75 ppm, but it's not detectable, so IMO better safe than sorry.

I was a preliminary judge at the NY State Fair home winemaking competition for several years in the early 90's. During that time I met a guy who could smell very low levels of sulfite. A former girlfriend, who had the most sensitive nose of anyone I've known, couldn't smell sulfite when at normal levels. For me, the sulfite levels I'm using are not a problem.

Good luck with the wife. If you haven't, ask her what she wants you to make and ensure you've always got something she wants in stock. It's good to reward a spouse who tolerates your insanity ....

 

[Riledup5]

Good luck with the wife. If you haven't, ask her what she wants you to make and ensure you've always got something she wants in stock. It's good to reward a spouse who tolerates your insanity ....

Ha! You know what they say about great minds! My first kit is a Chardonnay, of which I am not particularly fond of but it is her go-to white. My 2nd kit is a Pinot Noir, which is her go-to red. I like them ok, but not my favorite. My 3rd kit is a Sauv Blanc, which she doesn't care for, but is my go-to white. I may not be the smartest man, but time has at least given me a smidgeon of wisdom

 

[Riledup5]

I don't intentionally suck up sediment, but, I don't fuss if I suck some up. For kits, once the fermentation is done, kieselsol/chitosan is added and that sediment will be handled then. My goal is to not throw out good wine.

Gotcha. So that brings up another question. If you do siphon some of the sediment from the secondary into the tertiary (I guess that would be the right term), would you rack again earlier than the suggested 3 months to get the wine off the lees? Or just wait for the 3 months?

 

[winemaker81]

Gotcha. So that brings up another question. If you do siphon some of the sediment from the secondary into the tertiary (I guess that would be the right term), would you rack again earlier than the suggested 3 months to get the wine off the lees? Or just wait for the 3 months?

Depends on how much drops after the racking. If it's a dusting, I wait.

 

[BMarNJ]

And I say shove that racking cane down into the muck, pick some of it up, what's the big deal. It is heavy and dropped out before, it will drop out again. it won't cause off flavors, get as much as you can. I start with about 6.5 gallons and end up with about 6 gallons. No reason to lose half of what you started with.

@cmason1957 I’d like to start with 6.5 as well. Do you add a sugar water solution? What else? I have been shorting the water addition slightly, which doesn’t help.
I wish kitmakers would just provide enough juice so that the first racking yields close to 6 gallons. It’s baloney when they claim you get 30 bottles from a kit.

 

[cmason1957]

I almost always get 30+ bottles from a kit. I don't sorry the water at all, I generally go just a bit long on it and often increase the alcohol just a bit. If I need to top up, I top up. I think of it this way, take 98 ml of great wine and add 2ml of crap wine. Now try to tell me you can taste the difference.