WineXpert Winexpert Eclipse Lodi Old Vine Zinfandel

[TD Fermenting]

Just read through the entire thread, thanks for the collective knowledge! I am a rookie winemaker, have done two kits from WE so far, a 1 gallon Pinot Grigio and and 1 gallon Cab Sauv. The white is very drinkable already (2 months in) and just bottled the cab last weekend, nothing special yet.
I have the OVZ to start next week and just heard that my backordered WE Fiero-Primitivo kit has shipped.
2 questions to get advice on. First, I was expecting to just add the skins without a bag and do punchdowns regularly and was surprised to see a bag to put them in. What are the downsides to leaving the skins 'loose'?
Second is way down the road, but haven't seen anything in this thread, and that is about blending from finished kit wines. I love Primitive and Zin (and understand they are genetically identical ), has anyone tried blending these two specific kits? Any thoughts on how far down the road to try blending samples?
Cheers
Tim

 

[Brian55]

Just read through the entire thread, thanks for the collective knowledge! I am a rookie winemaker, have done two kits from WE so far, a 1 gallon Pinot Grigio and and 1 gallon Cab Sauv. The white is very drinkable already (2 months in) and just bottled the cab last weekend, nothing special yet.
I have the OVZ to start next week and just heard that my backordered WE Fiero-Primitivo kit has shipped.
2 questions to get advice on. First, I was expecting to just add the skins without a bag and do punchdowns regularly and was surprised to see a bag to put them in. What are the downsides to leaving the skins 'loose'?
Second is way down the road, but haven't seen anything in this thread, and that is about blending from finished kit wines. I love Primitive and Zin (and understand they are genetically identical ), has anyone tried blending these two specific kits? Any thoughts on how far down the road to try blending samples?
Cheers
Tim

Use the bag. There is no benefit to letting them loose. In the bag you can give them the occasional squeeze during fermentation. After fermentation you can give it a final squeeze then rack. Racking with loose skins is a bit more of a chore.

I've got no advise regarding blending.

 

[Swedeman]

Use the bag. There is no benefit to letting them loose. In the bag you can give them the occasional squeeze during fermentation. After fermentation you can give it a final squeeze then rack. Racking with loose skins is a bit more of a chore.

I agree with Brian55 that using a bag makes racking easier, if you use a bucket for the fermentation that is. But if you use a Fermonster like I do for my skin kits, don't use the bag. The opening of the Fermonster is 10 cm (~4") and getting the bag of skins out of it is really messy.

 

[Johnd]

Just read through the entire thread, thanks for the collective knowledge! I am a rookie winemaker, have done two kits from WE so far, a 1 gallon Pinot Grigio and and 1 gallon Cab Sauv. The white is very drinkable already (2 months in) and just bottled the cab last weekend, nothing special yet.
I have the OVZ to start next week and just heard that my backordered WE Fiero-Primitivo kit has shipped.
2 questions to get advice on. First, I was expecting to just add the skins without a bag and do punchdowns regularly and was surprised to see a bag to put them in. What are the downsides to leaving the skins 'loose'?
Second is way down the road, but haven't seen anything in this thread, and that is about blending from finished kit wines. I love Primitive and Zin (and understand they are genetically identical ), has anyone tried blending these two specific kits? Any thoughts on how far down the road to try blending samples?
Cheers
Tim

I don’t ever put skins in the bag. Letting them float freely and circulate in the must so that the yeast and enzymes have complete access to extract all of the goodness from the skins and pulp, in my opinion, is the superior method. So do those punch downs you’ve been looking forward to, wineries don’t bag their grapes. It’s just too easy to separate them later when you’re ready. To separate, take that muslin bag you didn’t use, stretch it over the mouth of a fermenting bucket, held in place with a rubber band, and dump your must into it. Remove the band and the bag o skins, and press / squeeze out the remaining wine.

As far as the blending, I don’t have experience with those two, but can help with the process. First, you should definitely wait until your wines are both completely clear and totally free of CO2, both normally accomplished naturally in 6 - 8 months or so. As far as the blending %, just set up some bench trials, samples of different combinations. Do a 50/50, and then a Primitivo kit dominant series of 60/40, 70/30, 80/20, and 90/10, same thing with a Zinfandel kit dominant series, then pick your favorite and make it. It’s pretty fun with family and / or friends participating in the tasting / voting.

Good luck!!

 

[GR!]

As far a the blending goes, I have heard to let your bench trials sit over night to simulate what a finished product will taste like when it’s all said and done. Any truth to this?

 

[TD Fermenting]

Thanks for all the advice and help, much appreciated. Finishing a wine tasting weekend (safely!). Will update once I get fermentation started.

 

[TD Fermenting]

Started the fermentation on Wednesday. Decided to let the skins go free along with the oak chips that came the kit. Didn’t add quite as much water as I didn’t want the SG to get too low. Total volume to start about 5 3/4 gallons, starting SG 1.090. The room where I keep my wine stuff is pretty cool usually around 68°, fermentation temperature is now about 75°, SG down to 1.052 yesterday. Nice cap of skins I’m stirring down a couple of times a day. Can’t get video clip to attach, will try later. Hot day in PNW, will try a white zin later today.
Cheers

 

[joeswine]

Hay Pumpkinman I didn't realize you were still with us ,good to here from you ( joeswine)

 

[TD Fermenting]

So it was a small disaster rocking after fermentation with loose skins. The cheesecloth strainer didn't stay on the bucket and fell into the wine with a big and messy splash! Ended up actually hand pressing the pomace. I think I've learned a better way to do it. I still like the idea of extra skin contact with them loose as opposed to in a bag but will think carefully before my next batch. Anyhow after racking and adding the Chitosan, Kieselsol and Sorbite/Sulfite and the Oak cubes I realize that my racking wasn't great, and I still have 1 ¾” of lees in the 6 Gallon glass carboy. I'd like to rack it again but I'm not sure how to salvage the Oak cubes. Any thoughts on this? Also I noticed that the yeast with this kit is a very rapid fermenter and it seemed that I had a lot more lees than I expected . I'm using a FermTech auto siphon for racking and the tip only comes up about 3/4 of an inch. Any better racking solutions to leave all the lees behind? Cheers!

 

[Brian55]

Use the bag, they're still floating in the same liquid, with just as much surface area contacting the liquid. Plus you can squeeze the bag occasionally to extract the juice from the skins.
It may look as if you have 1 3/4" of lees on the bottom, but most of that is just sticking to the sides where the bottom of the carboy begins to taper from horizontal to vertical. You'll lose almost all of that lees when you rack again in a few months. Don't sweat it.

 

[sour_grapes]

I have successfully recovered the oak cubes in the following manner: Siphon wine off the lees. Pour the sludgy liquid into a mason jar, leaving the thicker sludge and oak cubes behind. (I then put the mason jar in the fridge to settle to get just a little more liquid off the next day.) To get the oak cubes, I set a colander in my utility sink, and spray the inside of the carboy with one of those bottle cleaners shown below. The excess water and detritus and oak cubes fall out the hole, and are recovered in the colander.

 

[Brian55]

I have successfully recovered the oak cubes in the following manner: Siphon wine off the lees. Pour the sludgy liquid into a mason jar, leaving the thicker sludge and oak cubes behind. (I then put the mason jar in the fridge to settle to get just a little more liquid off the next day.) To get the oak cubes, I set a colander in my utility sink, and spray the inside of the carboy with one of those bottle cleaners shown below. The excess water and detritus and oak cubes fall out the hole, and are recovered in the colander.

If anyone is interested in purchasing a bottle washer similar to the one pictured, I recommend the stainless one from Morewine: Stainless Steel Bottle Washer | MoreWine

 

[Old Corker]

The excess water and detritus and oak cubes fall out the hole, and are recovered in the colander.

What do you do with the cubes once you recover them? How do you store them? How do you sanitize them before reusing? I have some in a jar that I put in the fridge but am unsure what to do next.

 

[Brian55]

What do you do with the cubes once you recover them? How do you store them? How do you sanitize them before reusing? I have some in a jar that I put in the fridge but am unsure what to do next.

Use them on the grill to add smoke flavor.

 

[sour_grapes]

What do you do with the cubes once you recover them? How do you store them? How do you sanitize them before reusing? I have some in a jar that I put in the fridge but am unsure what to do next.

Use them on the grill to add smoke flavor.

Well, my answer was in response to @TD Fermenting , and I was assuming the oak cubes were not yet spent. In that case, I immediately put them back into the same batch they were in for further oaking.

For the case where the cubes are spent, I do as @Brian55 suggests: I have a bag of them that I throw on the grill from time to time!

 

[TD Fermenting]

Great and thanks everyone.

 

[GaDawg]

In my limited experience oak cubes give up all their goodness after about 6 weeks.