Zinfandel grapes -> wine! A new member's introduction via a 75L of red deliciousness.

[Brant]

No opinion on nutrient. I've only used Fermaid O to help in the middle of fermentation, not in the starter. The stuff stinks and looks kinda gross though. Lol.

I have reserved part of the separate batches, e.g., reserve 8 liters of each batch, and after settling for a month, rack each down to 4 liters and add the remainder of each to the main batch. This way you have 5 bottles of each separate batch, which can be later compared to the main blended batch.

I like the idea of reserving a gallon or two of each batch to see how they compare. You can always age separately and then blend most of it back in at bottling time and just bottle 1 or 2 bottles of each. It would be neat to hear your opinion on their similarities/differences.

 

[winemaker81]

I like the idea of reserving a gallon or two of each batch to see how they compare. You can always age separately and then blend most of it back in at bottling time and just bottle 1 or 2 bottles of each. It would be neat to hear your opinion on their similarities/differences.

I fermented last fall's Chambourcin with Avante and Bravo, and currently have 1.5 liters of each reserved. When I did the last racking, the differences between Avante and Bravo were remarkable, as Avante eats 25-30% of the malic acid. I noticed the Avante was fruitier, which I suspect is due to less malic acid masking the fruit.

I think I mentioned this in my Fall 2023 Experiments thread, probably on page 4.

 

[tjmeyer]

Can you share some pictures of the vessels you're planning to ferment in?

Of course! See attached. I had a conical that was clean and ready, so just grabbed that and Star San'd + dry time

I assumed blending.

Yes, I think that's what we decided to save complexity. We'll have two batches during fermentation, then blend before press.

 

[tjmeyer]

I like the idea of reserving a gallon or two of each batch to see how they compare. You can always age separately and then blend most of it back in at bottling time and just bottle 1 or 2 bottles of each. It would be neat to hear your opinion on their similarities/differences.

Will do!

 

[tjmeyer]

Lol....

 

[tjmeyer]

Assmanshaussen for 8 gallon tank, for flavoringRP-15 for 12 gallon tank, for mouthfeel, varietal flavor, and fruit character

I totally just prepped this backwards exactly 60 seconds after reading it......

Spoiler: RP-15 image

Spoiler: BM 4x4 / Ass mixture image

Using kitchen measuring bowls, cooking thermometer, spoons, food scale, and microwave! Stuff most folks will have. Who needs flasks and stir tables anyway

 

[tjmeyer]

Does anyone have a preference on bentonite?

 

[tjmeyer]

I totally just prepped this backwards exactly 60 seconds after reading it......

Spoiler: RP-15 image

View attachment 111044

Spoiler: BM 4x4 / Ass mixture image

View attachment 111045

Using kitchen measuring bowls, cooking thermometer, spoons, food scale, and microwave! Stuff most folks will have. Who needs flasks and stir tables anyway

Both starters are looking very healthy so far. Success, I think. Time to wait!

Bryan's method seems good to me so far!

 

[winemaker81]

I totally just prepped this backwards exactly 60 seconds after reading it

It's not a big deal. If you asked me the question an hour from now, I might reverse it.

Does anyone have a preference on bentonite?

Bentonite strips color from reds, but supposedly doesn't if added pre-fermentation. I do use bentonite for whites if I suspect a protein haze.

I lean towards no fining agents unless there is a need. Ditto on filtering -- many moons ago I filtered for a couple of years, then stopped as I didn't think it necessary. YMMV

 

[Brant]

Of course! See attached. I had a conical that was clean and ready, so just grabbed that and Star San'd + dry time


Yes, I think that's what we decided to save complexity. We'll have two batches during fermentation, then blend before press.

Is that one of those fancy vacuum presses or something else?

 

[Brant]

Does anyone have a preference on bentonite?

Personally, i wouldn't use it for a grape wine. Just don't think it's necessary.

 

[tjmeyer]

Is that one of those fancy vacuum presses or something else?

It is. I would use a standard press if I had one on site. I only use vacuum press in the winery normally, so I don't have a screw or bladder press.

 

[tjmeyer]

It's not a big deal. If you asked me the question an hour from now, I might reverse it.


Bentonite strips color from reds, but supposedly doesn't if added pre-fermentation. I do use bentonite for whites if I suspect a protein haze.

I lean towards no fining agents unless there is a need. Ditto on filtering -- many moons ago I filtered for a couple of years, then stopped as I didn't think it necessary. YMMV

I have a filter just in case, but I agree with all of this. I only ever use it if I get a really stubborn batch.

What causes a protein haze in your whites?

 

[tjmeyer]

Bentonite strips color from reds

Personally, i wouldn't use it for a grape wine. Just don't think it's necessary.

Sounds like the vote is no to bentonite. Works for me!

 

[winemaker81]

What causes a protein haze in your whites?

It happens in some whites; no idea what the actual cause it, but it's grape proteins.

 

[Brant]

It is. I would use a standard press if I had one on site. I only use vacuum press in the winery normally, so I don't have a screw or bladder press.

If I ever get into grapes, I'd love to use a setup like that. Seems like a very efficient and versatile way to ferment and press.

 

[tjmeyer]

Data
I complete forgot to mention equipment. I personally don't find that equipment really matters in making good wine. My best batches have been in protein shaker bottles... As a reminder this batch is a forum/community wine make for anyone that wants to participate, so equipment you'd have as a hobbyist is the goal. Will add more later for reference.

Spoiler: Equipment list

fermenters: 1x Blichmann Engineering WineEasy 20 gallon and a 1x SS Brewtech 14g brew bucket that just happened to be clean.

Cap Punch: wood spoon

press: Blichmann Engineering 1/6 HP air vacuum pump

sparge: not doing that

Bottle filler: a hose and gravity

corker: hand Italian floor corker

corks: extra agglo 44 corks from the business

transfer: literally a homebrewohio bucket and a kitchen pitcher

labels: my $40 printer and Avery stickers

caps: extras from business

measure: cooking thermometer, tiltpro2 (NOT REQUIRED, just had it on hand), refractive Brix eyeglass, pipettes, precision Labs pH strips

etc: kitchen measuring cups, regular drinking cups, food scale, purchased yeast and additives, well water

 

[tjmeyer]

If I ever get into grapes, I'd love to use a setup like that. Seems like a very efficient and versatile way to ferment and press.

I highly recommend Blichmann Engineering for fermenters/press. As long as it's in the volumes you need. Game changer imo

 

[Brant]

So Trevor, I visited you winery website and I'm curious how you got to where you are now. What was the path? I assume you are married to Stephanie? I'd love to hear more if you're willing to share.

Also, how much wine did you guys make in your first years of production? Did you grow everything or source grapes from outside your vineyard to supplement?

 

[tjmeyer]

So Trevor, I visited you winery website and I'm curious how you got to where you are now. What was the path? I assume you are married to Stephanie? I'd love to hear more if you're willing to share.

Also, how much wine did you guys make in your first years of production? Did you grow everything or source grapes from outside your vineyard to supplement?

Yes, Stephanie is my wife! Firstly, the winery is not open yet, so nothing I've made up until now can be sold even after licensing and permits are complete This makes opening a winery one of the most cost-forward ventures I can think of--spend all the money, submit to competitions, make wine, distribute wine, can't sell anything with alcohol in it..... yeah. We tried to supplement the finances with selling overpriced wine glasses, but no one wants a wine glass from a winery they can only taste in-person or at events. Fortunately, we're doing it as a dream-made-reality thing, it is not something that is going to financially ruin us if it completely flops. If it flops, I'll still run the winery because it's just what I like doing. I realize I'm in a very fortunate position to be able to do that, but there you have it. If I didn't have the business sense to make it work, I still know the region has what it takes! We chose this location because the soil is positively perfect, the climate is spot on for most of the varieties I want, and the water is literally unlimited and free due to the in-land flowing Mojave river. We are not in "wine country," but I knew this spot was perfect, anyway. Our plan is to simply sell what we make, if we run out of a vintage then we run out. The goal was to simply make great wine from this terroir and prove it's possible. The vines I've worked with in Temecula (So Cal wine country) tended to struggle from all the morning dew constantly soaking them. Sure, you don't need to water much, but I started to wonder if any of these SoCal wine growers had ever been to Tuscany. It's arid, dry, only occasionally rainy and hot! Nothing like Temecula. That would be like trying to grow Riesling (a Rhine grape) in Tuscany... They get by with good rootstock and anti fungals, but high desert region of SoCal is really where it's at imo for these varietals, similar climate, similar growing season, similar rain fall, similar watering needs, close-enough soil comp.

Our first set of vines went in the ground in December of 2020, so even now they are not fully mature. Early 2021 was also when we started the licensing and permitting applications (yes, it really does take that long). We did not supplement with purchased grapes because we didn't need much, occasional events and competitions is all we do, even now. We're drowning in wine we can't sell, lol.

The very first year we produced around 100 gallons from ~500 vines, but they were very young and it was their first harvest. They grapes were sub par and too acidic. But this is normal for young vines. Most of this was turned in to wine, some was sold as juice to my family, but I don't think any of them actually used it to make good wine lol.

The second year we produced 300+ gallons from ~1400 vines. Most of which coming from the first year Zinfandel that was rapidly maturing and very vigorous. Others included Sangiovese and Malbec--I wanted to get my favorite reds in first. I was very worried about the 200 gallon per person limit for amateurs and contacted my ABC (Alcohol Beverage Control) Officer to figure out what I could do. He said just make wine out of it since our winery was already a very solid matter of "record." But of course we couldn't sell a drop of it. This was the first year we tried to sell grapes. We had the idea of having schools come and pick grapes as an agricultural experience for kids. This was quickly squashed by CA Karen mothers citing risk of spider bites, snake bites, and other asinine "risks." They wanted us to have on premises liability insurance before they'd consider it. Anyway! So we were asked to not allow "customers," if you could call them that, to enter the facilities, including the vineyards. Ultimately, about 100 gallons of must went to waste because we simply didn't scale fast enough to ferment it all. I had no idea how happy these vines were going to be.

The third year we had a grasshopper attack in early spring. I just dusted with flour, tilled the soil near affected vines (how they breed), and it didn't affect harvest. This year we had a similarly huge harvest from the Zinfandel--the Malbec, Sangiovese, and young Sauv Blanc were also very productive, but no-where near all the Zin and we'd only planted 4 acres (~2000 vines). I stopped measuring this year, just filled all the space we had (300 gallons), and composted everything else that didn't look perfect. This was the first year I knew we'd be ok! I couldn't believe the quality and quantity of wines coming from our ground, that's really what worried me most since our little area in the foothills of the San Bernardino mountains isn't normally considered "wine county." I also had multiple gold awards from professional educators, and industry pros--this really validated my vines and skills more than anything else. I love how my wine tastes, but now I know others do too! I think this boost saved me from just giving up tbh.

We're now into our fourth year and all of the primary construction is finally done. The house, the well (this was actually first even before the house), the winery building, the vineyards, etc. All that's left is County permission to hardscape and landscape, and ABC permission to sell and host. We are already TTB approved and can submit labels and recipes to the feds as needed. None of the wines I make, with maybe the exception of the pomegranate zinfandel blend, requires recipe submission, however.

We had plans to plant around 20 acres, but put those on pause to allow us to get out of the red first. If things go well, I'll expand the vineyards and winery as needed. If not, then the 4 acres that are active is just about right for me to handle on my own (without needing to hire too much).

Hope that answers your question! Cheers.