critique/inputs for blackberry wine
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Turock, i've been following this thread on blackberry wine and noticed you also make cherry wine. I've made four batches of not very good cherry wine using either black cherry concentrate or fresh tart pie cherries. I live very close to the cherry capitol of wisconsin and will have access to lots of cherries and juice this summmer. I would like to try again. Could you share your technique. I haven't found anything on line. One guy i met said he just ferments the juice and then it's drinkable in a few weeks which i find hard to believe. If you can point me in the right direction i would greatly appreciate it
OK--no problem. Our cherry wine is really fabulous and retains that nice tartness of nose and flavor even tho we adjust the PH. That's probably what you're looking for. It took us a couple of attempts to get it to that level.
We use sour cherries. We ferment on the fruit---we don't just use the juice because we feel the pulp of the fruit adds so much to the wine. AND doing it on the skins gets you lots of color. Be sure they're pitted because the seeds can give an off-flavor.
Get the cherries in the vat---we always bag our fruit because it makes it easier to handle and makes the wine a little "cleaner" for siphoning. It also helps when pressing. Add meta and pectic enzyme on that first day. If the cherries are not frozen, you can add a double dose of pectic enzyme to break the fruit down better so you have enough juice for testing.
Second day, stir it all up or if it's bagged, squeeze the bags to release some juice. If the cherries were frozen, you'll have a LOT of juice. Use NO WATER--this is the secret to a great cherry wine. Adjust your PH to about 3.4 If the cherries are acidic, use calcium carbonate to bring the PH up. If not acid enough, use acid blend to get to the 3.4 PH Then set your brix. You'll want an SG of about 1.09 or so to get an alcohol content of 12.5 ABV.
We use Montrachet culture on it. The ferment should be about 5 days or so. Do a cooler ferment on it to retain volatiles. Ferm temp should be no higher than 75 degrees.
When you add your chemistries, the instructions are always "per gallon" or "per 5 gallons." You're probably wondering how to know how much wine these cherries with no water are going to make---I mean most recipes say to add a certain amount of water to equal 5 gallons and so that's what you use to know how much of a chemitry to add. The way you do this is to think about using 10-12# of cherries per gallon. So if you have 50 pounds of cherries, you would make 5 gallons of wine from that using 10 pounds of cherries per gallon. Then you know how much acid blend or calcium carbonate, or meta,etc. to add to the must. Hope that makes sense to you. Any questions? Let me know.
We use sour cherries. We ferment on the fruit---we don't just use the juice because we feel the pulp of the fruit adds so much to the wine. AND doing it on the skins gets you lots of color. Be sure they're pitted because the seeds can give an off-flavor.
Get the cherries in the vat---we always bag our fruit because it makes it easier to handle and makes the wine a little "cleaner" for siphoning. It also helps when pressing. Add meta and pectic enzyme on that first day. If the cherries are not frozen, you can add a double dose of pectic enzyme to break the fruit down better so you have enough juice for testing.
Second day, stir it all up or if it's bagged, squeeze the bags to release some juice. If the cherries were frozen, you'll have a LOT of juice. Use NO WATER--this is the secret to a great cherry wine. Adjust your PH to about 3.4 If the cherries are acidic, use calcium carbonate to bring the PH up. If not acid enough, use acid blend to get to the 3.4 PH Then set your brix. You'll want an SG of about 1.09 or so to get an alcohol content of 12.5 ABV.
We use Montrachet culture on it. The ferment should be about 5 days or so. Do a cooler ferment on it to retain volatiles. Ferm temp should be no higher than 75 degrees.
When you add your chemistries, the instructions are always "per gallon" or "per 5 gallons." You're probably wondering how to know how much wine these cherries with no water are going to make---I mean most recipes say to add a certain amount of water to equal 5 gallons and so that's what you use to know how much of a chemitry to add. The way you do this is to think about using 10-12# of cherries per gallon. So if you have 50 pounds of cherries, you would make 5 gallons of wine from that using 10 pounds of cherries per gallon. Then you know how much acid blend or calcium carbonate, or meta,etc. to add to the must. Hope that makes sense to you. Any questions? Let me know.
vernsgal
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so this heat is waking up my blackberry. It has tiny bubbles on the top, no action really in the airlock. I took the temp and it's at 78F and the SG dropped to .998. Should I cool it down? I could move it to underground garage, I believe it's in the 60's there or place in cool water or is this temp. still ok for this stage?
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thanks, i'll give it a shot one more time this summer.
Vernsgal--Yes, you can adjust the PH post ferment. What are you doing? Yeah--it IS a lot of cherries but we didn't get ANY last year because of the frost and our stock of cherry wine is very low. It's a big favorite with our friends so it goes fast.
Wood--Any questions when you start the ferment, let me know.
Wood--Any questions when you start the ferment, let me know.
vernsgal
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whew. I don't know how I forgot to check ,I was looking through my notes to see what day I racked it, and the SG ,when I noticed I forgot to check PH.
I've actually have about 6 projects going but the one in question is a blackberry/raspberry. It's not a straight berry wine because I was given, 1 of each-Vintner's 96oz harvest fruit wine base. I've never used this before but had read it was weak so I combined the 2 for a 6 gal batch. Glad I checked the PH today cause it was pretty low. Brought it up to 3.33
Jealous of all your cherries, hopefully next spring when we move to the Okanagan I'll be able to get my hands on a lot of fresh fruit and at a better price.We planted 2 Cherry trees about 4 years ago so hopefully I'll get enough to try a no water/cherry wine.
I'm working on a cherry wine-also with the 96oz Vintner's but I added a mix of about 25lbs of frozen blackberry/raspberry/blueberry.
I've actually have about 6 projects going but the one in question is a blackberry/raspberry. It's not a straight berry wine because I was given, 1 of each-Vintner's 96oz harvest fruit wine base. I've never used this before but had read it was weak so I combined the 2 for a 6 gal batch. Glad I checked the PH today cause it was pretty low. Brought it up to 3.33
Jealous of all your cherries, hopefully next spring when we move to the Okanagan I'll be able to get my hands on a lot of fresh fruit and at a better price.We planted 2 Cherry trees about 4 years ago so hopefully I'll get enough to try a no water/cherry wine.
I'm working on a cherry wine-also with the 96oz Vintner's but I added a mix of about 25lbs of frozen blackberry/raspberry/blueberry.
I think in one more week or so cherries will be ready in Door County. $1.29 for Upick-em cherries. i'll bring help and pick 50-60 lbs. I'm actually drinking a glass of last years cherry wine chilled and it's pretty good. It's almost 100% juice. the other batch i made was about 50% juice and i think i added too much SO2, hopefully that taste will fade away.
Vernsgal---Ok, well it sounds like you solved your own problem. Yeah--always be sure to check the PH of everything--even those cans of fruit base when mixed with fruit. The only use we ever found for the fruit bases is to add them to fruit--then they do a good job of upping the flavor--but alone, they're very weak.
We order these cherries thru a local orchard who ships them in from Michigan. They come in all pitted in 5 pound containers. I think the price is around that $4.00 per pound mark, but I have just too many projects going on here and can't spend the time picking cherries. Got to get my projects done before winter---and we just got done with 16 straight days of rain. You can imagine how much yard work I'm facing after that with the 6 acres here. However, the corn was knee-high to an elephant this 4th of July!!!
We order these cherries thru a local orchard who ships them in from Michigan. They come in all pitted in 5 pound containers. I think the price is around that $4.00 per pound mark, but I have just too many projects going on here and can't spend the time picking cherries. Got to get my projects done before winter---and we just got done with 16 straight days of rain. You can imagine how much yard work I'm facing after that with the 6 acres here. However, the corn was knee-high to an elephant this 4th of July!!!
Only rack if you have lots of debris in the bottom---which you might since you used bentonite. You want to get to the point of only having a light dusting of lees on the bottom.
It's hard to say if you need to add meta. If you meta'd properly at the primary but haven't added any since, then yes I would add a proper dose now. I'm compelled to tell you that to know how much meta your wine needs, you should be SO2 testing and considering the PH of the wine to tell you how much free SO2 you need.
A brand new winemaker might want to go thru the expense of the SO2 test kit a couple times so you get a feel for how much meta you need in the wines you make. After that, you can sort of wing-it because you already know the parameters of what and how you're doing things, and how much meta--at what times--you need to add. If you end up with wines in carboys for long time periods, a solid bung would be a good idea over an airlock. Then you may never need to add more meta because a bung is more secure than a cork.
It's hard to say if you need to add meta. If you meta'd properly at the primary but haven't added any since, then yes I would add a proper dose now. I'm compelled to tell you that to know how much meta your wine needs, you should be SO2 testing and considering the PH of the wine to tell you how much free SO2 you need.
A brand new winemaker might want to go thru the expense of the SO2 test kit a couple times so you get a feel for how much meta you need in the wines you make. After that, you can sort of wing-it because you already know the parameters of what and how you're doing things, and how much meta--at what times--you need to add. If you end up with wines in carboys for long time periods, a solid bung would be a good idea over an airlock. Then you may never need to add more meta because a bung is more secure than a cork.
vernsgal
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Thanks Turock. I did add in the primary and haven't added any since. I'm picking up an SO2 tester tomorrow and will try it out as well as retesting my PH. I will let you know my results.
I do want to learn to do everything right, so again, Thanks for the help.
I do want to learn to do everything right, so again, Thanks for the help.
For a PH of 3.4, you need about 40PPM of free SO2. I think I'd add the 1/4 tsp because your wine is so low on free sulfite. Go back and retest it later on. Bound SO2 does nothing for protecting the wine. It is the FREE, or unbound SO2, that does the protection.
The lower the PH is, the less SO2 you need for protection. A wine of 3.2 PH only needs about 25 PPM-- a PH of 3.3 needs 30 PPM--a PH of 3.6 needs 60 PPM---a PH of 3.8 needs 80 PPM. Most of your wines will be adjusted to a PH of 3.3 to 3.4 unless you're making a white grape wine which is usually a lower PH. But most fruit wines are in the 3.3 to 3.4 range.
So if you keep your PH in your future wines around that 3.3 to 3.4 range, you'll know how much meta to add thru experience and won't have to test all the time.
I'm glad you did the test. I like your scientific approach instead of just winging it.
The lower the PH is, the less SO2 you need for protection. A wine of 3.2 PH only needs about 25 PPM-- a PH of 3.3 needs 30 PPM--a PH of 3.6 needs 60 PPM---a PH of 3.8 needs 80 PPM. Most of your wines will be adjusted to a PH of 3.3 to 3.4 unless you're making a white grape wine which is usually a lower PH. But most fruit wines are in the 3.3 to 3.4 range.
So if you keep your PH in your future wines around that 3.3 to 3.4 range, you'll know how much meta to add thru experience and won't have to test all the time.
I'm glad you did the test. I like your scientific approach instead of just winging it.
vernsgal
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Thanks Turock. I printed and posted those numbers on my board until I have them embedded in this old brain. Tomorrow I'll rack and add the k-meta.
I have a myriad of different wine projects going right now. Some I'm holding true to, some I'm experimenting with. I want to know how to test and figure what needs what properly without just throwing something in and hoping for the best. Especially since these wines will all age at least a year before unbottling ,that's too long to wait for something bad
My future goal is not to make a good wine, but to make a "great" wine. So I'll be needing a lot of experienced advice from this site!
I have a myriad of different wine projects going right now. Some I'm holding true to, some I'm experimenting with. I want to know how to test and figure what needs what properly without just throwing something in and hoping for the best. Especially since these wines will all age at least a year before unbottling ,that's too long to wait for something bad
My future goal is not to make a good wine, but to make a "great" wine. So I'll be needing a lot of experienced advice from this site!
