Degassing (newbie)

[Milbon]

Hi all,

Ive just finished bottling my very first wine kit and so far im pretty proud of myself! I wont get too ahead of myself and reserve full judgement until I have given it a month or so in the bottle before drinking.

One main question I have is with regard to degassing. Im not really sure I degassed enough before clearing the wine (how do you know when is enough) so I am a little worried there still may be some gasses in the wine now bottles. Firsty, Is there an issue if this is the case? and seocndly, is there any means of degassing the wine at this late stage?

 

[Ohio Bob]

Hi all,

Ive just finished bottling my very first wine kit and so far im pretty proud of myself! I wont get too ahead of myself and reserve full judgement until I have given it a month or so in the bottle before drinking.

One main question I have is with regard to degassing. Im not really sure I degassed enough before clearing the wine (how do you know when is enough) so I am a little worried there still may be some gasses in the wine now bottles. Firsty, Is there an issue if this is the case? and seocndly, is there any means of degassing the wine at this late stage?

How long was the wine aging in a carboy before you bottled? If it’s 6 months or more, then the wine probably has outgassed by now. The CO2 in the bottle won’t hurt anything, your wine may have a bit of a sharp note, maybe even a fizz to it. Decanting red wines will help drive the gas out, or letting the glass of wine sit for 30 minutes before drinking.

There’s a product called the vac-u-vin. Looks like a wine stopper but has a one way flapper valve on it. A handheld pump is used to pull a slight vacuum on the wine. The purpose is to remove oxygen in the headspace so the wine won’t oxidize if the bottle isn’t consumed in a few days. You could use it to pull CO2 out of the bottle as soon as you open it.

 

[Milbon]

How long was the wine aging in a carboy before you bottled? If it’s 6 months or more, then the wine probably has outgassed by now. The CO2 in the bottle won’t hurt anything, your wine may have a bit of a sharp note, maybe even a fizz to it. Decanting red wines will help drive the gas out, or letting the glass of wine sit for 30 minutes before drinking.

There’s a product called the vac-u-vin. Looks like a wine stopper but has a one way flapper valve on it. A handheld pump is used to pull a slight vacuum on the wine. The purpose is to remove oxygen in the headspace so the wine won’t oxidize if the bottle isn’t consumed in a few days. You could use it to pull CO2 out of the bottle as soon as you open it.

Thanks for the response.

This may be a very silly question, but during degassing, how do you know when to stop?

 

[winemaker81]

Watch for corks pushing out the bottle -- that is clear evidence of too much CO2. If that is happening, you need to unbottle the wine, stir it (see below), and let it rest 2 to 4 weeks under airlock. Then rebottle.

If the corks don't push, then you're probably ok. However, I'd chill the bottle before popping the first cork. If you get a light "pop", it's probably ok. If you get a gusher ... you'll need to unbottle as above.

Note: DO NOT secure the corks in any way, e.g., wire them down -- pressure could build enough a weak spot in the glass may fail, e.g., explode. Wine bottles are unrated for pressure, meaning no amount of pressure is considered safe. A light spritz is probably not dangerous, but if I'm sparkling a wine in any way, I use a champagne bottle which is rated for pressure.

This may be a very silly question, but during degassing, how do you know when to stop?

After the first racking/pressing, I stir the wine with a drill-mounted stirring rod for 1 minute, changing direction half way through. This expels a lot of CO2 and jump starts the process. IME the wine will fully degas within a month or so.

When stirring I build up a slight vortex, but do not "whip" the wine. I'm expelling CO2, not introducing O2.

If you are bottling on kit schedule (4 to 8 weeks), I recommend don't. Once the wine is in bulk aging, let it rest for at least 3 months. Wine goes through a lot of chemical changes in the first 4-12 months, and it's best to let it work through those changes as a single unit. Plus it has time to fully degas AND to drop all sediment in the carboy, not the bottle.

 

[Milbon]

thanks for all of the help everyone!

If you are bottling on kit schedule (4 to 8 weeks), I recommend don't. Once the wine is in bulk aging, let it rest for at least 3 months. Wine goes through a lot of chemical changes in the first 4-12 months, and it's best to let it work through those changes as a single unit. Plus it has time to fully degas AND to drop all sediment in the carboy, not the bottle.

i will certainly do this next time. i'm planning on doing a few kits to "get my eye in". interesting that the kits say to bottle so early, why would they do this?

As a thumb going forward, ill clear/bulk age for a few months in a carboy, maybe with a racking in the middle to get it off any sediment?

How long would you ideally leave a kit wine from fermentation to drinking? i know thats a very open question.

 

[Ohio Bob]

thanks for all of the help everyone!



i will certainly do this next time. i'm planning on doing a few kits to "get my eye in". interesting that the kits say to bottle so early, why would they do this?

As a thumb going forward, ill clear/bulk age for a few months in a carboy, maybe with a racking in the middle to get it off any sediment?

How long would you ideally leave a kit wine from fermentation to drinking? i know thats a very open question.

Kit manufacturers write the instructions expecting customers to have zero experience. If they wrote the instructions to say to bulk age for 1 year, they would sell fewer kits. First time kits probably get made in the kitchen. Imagine telling your spouse you need the kitchen counter for the next year!

Typical racking schedule is every 3 months, at which time a dosage of Kmeta is needed. Since the Kmeta binds with fine lees and scavenges oxygen, it eventually expends all its protection capacity. Some get lucky by extending that time well past 3 months, but it’s a game of risk. Keep your carboys well topped off, minimizing the headspace helps reduce oxygen already in the carboy.

Wait at least 1 month before tasting, reds might need even longer. Right after bottling is the perfect time to start a new kit. All your equipment is newly cleaned and available for use. The wine will continue to improve and may be best after 1 year. Unfortunately, impatient wine makers will have drunk all their supply, so keep good notes on your tastings. Make more than you think you need so over time you will begin to have an inventory that’s been aging for a while.

 

[winemaker81]

interesting that the kits say to bottle so early, why would they do this?

Kit vendors are speaking the truth -- ANY wine can be bottled in 4 weeks from the start. Bottling early being a good idea? Not necessarily so, but it works.

As a thumb going forward, ill clear/bulk age for a few months in a carboy, maybe with a racking in the middle to get it off any sediment?

There are multiple schools of thought on racking, all valid even though they contradict each other. Yeah, that's a hard things for new winemakers to make sense of.

I was originally taught to rack wines every 3 months, even if there was no sediment. Much later I learned about "sur lie" and "battonage" (search on those topics), which taught me fine lees is not a problem.

Gross lees (fruit solids) supposedly drop within 24-72 hours of the end of fermentation. Anything that drops after that is fine lees (yeast hulls).

When pressing wine, I typically let it rest 1 to 3 weeks in glass (depends on the wine and my schedule). Reds are racked into barrels and they remain unracked for typically 12 months. Whites go back into glass, and rest for 3 to 6 months, depending on the wine. I add K-meta every 3 months -- the first treatment is stirred in; after that I withdraw a sample, add K-meta, and re-add the sample with the hopes that it will spread enough. This avoids stirring up the sediment.

How long would you ideally leave a kit wine from fermentation to drinking? i know thats a very open question.

Bob's answer is spot on.

Whites will be ready earlier, although heavier whites (say Chardonnay with oak) may take longer to be drinkable. I've had white kits peak at 9 months and in decline at 12, whereas others were great as 24 months, so popping a cork periodically and recording your impressions is in your best interest. It's the best self-taught class on wine aging possible.

Reds are all over the board. Kits made from just concentrate will probably mature early, some are drinkable at 4 months. Longevity on these varies, probably 2 years as a very rough guess. Kits made with oak and/or skin packs will have a longer life cycle.

These are ballpark time frames -- every wine is different and if you make enough wines, you WILL be surprised from time to time. Mother Nature and Dionysus have a weird sense of humor and like to mess with us mortals ...