Help identifying this red grape. Cali, Sierra Nevada foothills

[Scott Harbison]

Would Labrusca be grown in California? That seems very odd to me. This says its mostly an east coast vine.

https://gobotany.newenglandwild.org/species/vitis/labrusca/

 

[CK55]

Would Labrusca be grown in California? That seems very odd to me. This says its mostly an east coast vine.

https://gobotany.newenglandwild.org/species/vitis/labrusca/

Not usually but California does have a native wild grape. That does grow in that area, my great grandmother who is still alive talked about wine making and grapes that the family used, we know that my 3x great grandfather owned a successful winery from around probably 1860's and that the family kept it in operation we think untill prohibition. She told me that she remembers huge oak vats that the wine would be sort of open fermented in. My grandmother told me that in the angels camp area of California she remembers lots of wild grapes that are native to California and that a lot of abandoned zinfandel vines existed where people used to grow them.

 

[Boatboy24]

I certainly don't know my grape leaves....yet....but the closest I've seen is Malbec, but even that doesn't look correct to me. The leaves you have appear more rounded.

Agree. Malbec is the closest match, but not close enough.

 

[CK55]

Agree. Malbec is the closest match, but not close enough.

The grape doesnt look anything like malbec, and im saying this because as i told AJ I have Malbec vines.

 

[TOMMARIANI22]

There really only two variteys in California that are about 100 years old Zinfandel in the Sierra foothills ... Which lead me to my first thought there are many clonal selections of zin and this could be a certain clonal selection. The other variety which was believed to be gamay but turned out to be abouriou also known as early burgundy. Very similar you. Very unique leaf structure I've never really have seen anything similar to such an oval shape.

 

[CK55]

There really only two variteys in California that are about 100 years old Zinfandel in the Sierra foothills ... Which lead me to my first thought there are many clonal selections of zin and this could be a certain clonal selection. The other variety which was believed to be gamay but turned out to be abouriou also known as early burgundy. Very similar you. Very unique leaf structure I've never really have seen anything similar to such an oval shape.

Zinfandel is pretty much the first real wine grape in california and was in the state as early as 1820. California has a variety of old grapes. And a lot that are nearly extinct or rare.

 

[Zintrigue]

Well, I'm fairly certain this isn't a Zin, just based on the leaf shape and cluster alone. I'd be over the moon if it were. Though it is a prominent grape in this region, you guys aren't off the mark about that. I had the pleasure of tasting a Zin from a vine aged 107 years recently (Ironstone Vineyards, for those interested), and was surprised at how much sweeter it was than the younger 85 year old vine wines.

Anyway, I gave my grapes a taste (which was rough, mind you, since I don't actually like grapes) and was distinctly reminded of the table grapes that my kids eat. Very sweet, very Concord. Welch's grape juice, even. Huge seeds, blech. Didn't detect any muskiness (foxy?), but then again my palate is probably poor or just leaning toward the sweeter flavors. I always pick up oak, leather, berries, and sort of a whiskey sweetness first when diving into a red wine.

Either case, I'm still leaning toward an American variety (Vitis), transplanted most likely. The guy offered to let me pick his whole yard, but I'm worried that once I go to all this trouble then the "foxy" taste will punch me in the face and I'll hate it. I should really get my paws on some actual vinifera and learn the difference.

 

[Zintrigue]

Not usually but California does have a native wild grape. That does grow in that area, my great grandmother who is still alive talked about wine making and grapes that the family used, we know that my 3x great grandfather owned a successful winery from around probably 1860's and that the family kept it in operation we think untill prohibition. She told me that she remembers huge oak vats that the wine would be sort of open fermented in. My grandmother told me that in the angels camp area of California she remembers lots of wild grapes that are native to California and that a lot of abandoned zinfandel vines existed where people used to grow them.

Mission wine, perhaps? I've tasted a "mission wine" that was described as fermenting just like that, and boy was it earthy. I am right by Angels Camp. It's a shame that Calaveras county wines don't get mentioned alongside Lodi or Amador.

 

[CK55]

Mission wine, perhaps? I've tasted a "mission wine" that was described as fermenting just like that, and boy was it earthy. I am right by Angels Camp. It's a shame that Calaveras county wines don't get mentioned alongside Lodi or Amador.

That's not mission mission has huge clusters and makes a really low quality wine! It's pretty much good for Brandy. That's all. Criolla Mediana is one of the criolla crosses except unlike the others this one took place in California and inherited much more of the Muscat of Alexandria making it a better grape. I have vines of this. it was known as black prince by my family.

 

[Zintrigue]

That's not mission mission has huge clusters and makes a really low quality wine! It's pretty much good for Brandy. That's all. Criolla Mediana is one of the criolla crosses except unlike the others this one took place in California and inherited much more of the Muscat of Alexandria making it a better grape. I have vines of this. it was known as black prince by my family.

Ah, I had mistakenly thought that Mission was used to describe the process, not the grape itself. Live and learn. Does black prince make very good wine?

 

[CK55]

Ah, I had mistakenly thought that Mission was used to describe the process, not the grape itself. Live and learn. Does black prince make very good wine?

I wouldnt know, as currently nobody is making any examples of it, I have some thats nearing being ripe, and im going to make a batch starting tommorrow, of course its going to have a wee bit of flame tokay, and zinfandel and a couple other unknown grapes blended in.

Mission is actually Listan Prieto, a little known spanish wine grape that is pretty much limited to being grown these days on one small island.

Mission was brought over by the spanish to the state of california and used for making wines for religious ceremonies and it was not very good as a table wine, so they made a brandy from it. Mission is the same grape, but it was planted from seeds so enough genetic mutations occured that while its genetically the same in testing the characteristics are far different to listan.

My grape was taking mission and pollinating a cluster with Muscat Of Alexandria, forming a red grape that shares parentage with Muscat, and Muscat helps to bring some acidity and tannins to Mission making a better wine that is drinkable on its own.

 

[CK55]

Ah, I had mistakenly thought that Mission was used to describe the process, not the grape itself. Live and learn. Does black prince make very good wine?

https://imgur.com/a/BpKpb4B

heres a grape in that cluster next to the criollas that screams french grape. I dont know what it is its one of the couple of unknown grapes i have.

Heres a picture of crioila
https://imgur.com/a/kaQFjY4

 

[Luvthepinot]

Lots of gsm in foothills . Mourvèdre ??

 

[CK55]

Lots of gsm in foothills . Mourvèdre ??

I've never heard of gsm in the foothills. And I have family who have lived in the area since the 1840's. But it's always possible. I looked at it and went hmm that's a different looking grape. Its $350 to test with Davis so I'm not really going to do it for 2 grapes

 

[Luvthepinot]

If you consider apple hill, placerville and Coloma the Sierra Nevada Foothills then there’s GSM everywhere .

 

[Luvthepinot]

Although the leaves look a little different the grapes look similar to my Mourvèdre I grow in ColomaView attachment 51370

 

[Luvthepinot]

Sorry another attempt at a pic , lol

 

[CK55]

Sorry another attempt at a pic , lol
View attachment 51372

Nice grapes those also kinda look like Malbec.