Help identifying this red grape. Cali, Sierra Nevada foothills

[Zintrigue]

Hey guys. I did a google search for a few minutes and didn't stumble across anything close to what I've got here. Leaves are kinda fluffy shaped, not a typical grape leaf. I figured I'd ask the pros. I don't plan on sending it in for identification, I'll settle for "close enough."

The guy who gave me the grapes said its a 100 year old vine and he has no idea what it is. I'm skeptical of the age. Anyway, here are the pics of what I got. If it's a decent grape I'll hit the guy up for more from now on. Maybe I can make my first wine from purely grapes instead of a kit.

Thanks for taking a look.

 

[TOMMARIANI22]

Zinfandel

 

[CK55]

Hey guys. I did a google search for a few minutes and didn't stumble across anything close to what I've got here. Leaves are kinda fluffy shaped, not a typical grape leaf. I figured I'd ask the pros. I don't plan on sending it in for identification, I'll settle for "close enough."

The guy who gave me the grapes said its a 100 year old vine and he has no idea what it is. I'm skeptical of the age. Anyway, here are the pics of what I got. If it's a decent grape I'll hit the guy up for more from now on. Maybe I can make my first wine from purely grapes instead of a kit.

Thanks for taking a look.

It does look like zin, but also Gamay which looks quite similar. If you get a cutting, send it to me, i would like to try and grow it and i would pay the cash to get it tested.

 

[balatonwine]

Hm..... That leaf looks nothing like a "classic" Zinfandel leaf structure. Such as:

From:

http://www.gotastewine.com/wine-varietals.php#

 

[CK55]

Im really leaning towards gamay look at the picture on wikipedia, hell it looks almost just like the grape you have! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamay

Of course you washed the white film off but still.

 

[balatonwine]

Assuming this is Vinifera, Gamay as already suggested is possible. I would also look at Malbec. But from one (unhealthy?) leaf, and one cluster sample only, it may be hard to key out very well. Quite frankly, I am guessing on this one, and don't know.

 

[CK55]

Assuming this is Vinifera, Gamay as already suggested is possible. I would also look at Malbec. But from one (unhealthy?) leaf, and one cluster sample only, it may be hard to key out very well. Quite frankly, I am guessing on this one, and don't know.

I have 50 malbec vines and the clusters are wrong and the leaves are not like that at all. they have a unique curve to them. that leave is not curved at all.

 

[balatonwine]

I have 50 malbec vines and the clusters are wrong and the leaves are not like that at all. they have a unique curve to them. that leave is not curved at all.

I know. But as I said, one cluster and one leaf may or may not be "descriptive" so making a call based on that alone may be incorrect.

For example, you may be right about it being Gamay. But the leaf to me does not look fully like Gamay either to me. For one thing, the margins are rounded, rather than pointed as in most Gamay leaves. Little details like that may matter when keying out any plant. So I would like to see more leaves, as vines can grow quite a variation of leaves, and if this one is "descriptive" or not.

Which is why I said, from that photo alone, keying out the grape is problematic. And I am only guessing.

 

[CK55]

I know. But as I said, one cluster and one leaf may or may not be "descriptive" so making a call based on that alone may be incorrect.

For example, you may be right about it being Gamay. But the leaf to me does not look fully like Gamay either to me. For one thing, the margins are rounded, rather than pointed as in most Gamay leaves. Little details like that may matter when keying out any plant. So I would like to see more leaves, as vines can grow quite a variation of leaves, and if this one is "descriptive" or not.

Which is why I said, from that photo alone, keying out the grape is problematic. And I am only guessing.

Agreed, I am thinking that it will probably be french, but it could be something thats rare as here in california in the 1800's grapes were field blended and a lot of rare grapes are mixed in, so davis and other researchers are finding grapes thought to be extinct.

Ive even had a few remarkable discoveries in my 40 year old vines that i thought were completely criolla, ive got one that im 100% sure is zinfandel and another one thats undetermined.

My grape i thought was white finally made grapes and they turned out to be Flame Tokay.

 

[balatonwine]

but it could be something thats rare as here in california

Absolutely. Looking at Gamay as an option (after you suggested it) I just stumbled upon Valdiguié, which I did not even know grew in California until just now.

In fact, I had never heard of this grape at all till today. So many grapes, that can make so many wines. Is one life enough to try them all?

 

[CK55]

Absolutely. Looking at Gamay as an option (after you suggested it) I just stumbled upon Valdiguié, which I did not even know grew in California until just now.

In fact, I had never heard of this grape at all till today. So many grapes, that can make so many wines. Is one life enough to try them all?

I dont know the answer to that, i hope i get to try most of them im still young lol. Yeah i had read about vald a while back.

Heres some pictures of some of the grapes on my various 40 year old vines. The pics arent the best as my new trellis blocks me from easy access to some of the clusters and thus couldnt get better pics.
https://imgur.com/a/tLiFus5

 

[Zintrigue]

It does look like zin, but also Gamay which looks quite similar. If you get a cutting, send it to me, i would like to try and grow it and i would pay the cash to get it tested.

That's a very generous offer. I'll see if I can secure some cuttings down the line. It was kind of a third party transaction. As in my husband, after having mentioned to a few people that I make wine, came home with a sandwich bag of what I pictured above. Haha

Assuming this is Vinifera, Gamay as already suggested is possible. I would also look at Malbec. But from one (unhealthy?) leaf, and one cluster sample only, it may be hard to key out very well. Quite frankly, I am guessing on this one, and don't know.

Oh wow, Malbec looks really close. Good find.

So many grapes, that can make so many wines. Is one life enough to try them all?

You can be darned sure we'll try.

 

[Zintrigue]

So I poked around on leaf identification and came across "rounded lobes" or "crenate margins" to describe the shape. Then promptly came up with two varieties of grape I've never heard of before, but to my untrained eye, seem to match?

Summer Grape: http://www.namethatplant.net/picpag...km10/jkm100730_219.jpg&plant=1667&photo=12101
And Frost Grape: http://www.namethatplant.net/picpag...km09/jkm090725_062.jpg&plant=1671&photo=10625

Though the names are polar opposite, the leaf shape alone has me wondering. The guy said his great grandma planted the grape on the property. Since these are native to the East coast and much of California's population originally migrated from the East coast, it seems plausible that these could simply be transplanted Eastern natives. I mean everything here is "49er" this and "old western" that, so you never know.

Am I off my rocker?

 

[CK55]

So I poked around on leaf identification and came across "rounded lobes" or "crenate margins" to describe the shape. Then promptly came up with two varieties of grape I've never heard of before, but to my untrained eye, seem to match?

Summer Grape: http://www.namethatplant.net/picpag...km10/jkm100730_219.jpg&plant=1667&photo=12101
And Frost Grape: http://www.namethatplant.net/picpag...km09/jkm090725_062.jpg&plant=1671&photo=10625

Though the names are polar opposite, the leaf shape alone has me wondering. The guy said his great grandma planted the grape on the property. Since these are native to the East coast and much of California's population originally migrated from the East coast, it seems plausible that these could simply be transplanted Eastern natives. I mean everything here is "49er" this and "old western" that, so you never know.

Am I off my rocker?

I don't think it's a east coast grape. The Spanish had people in California before the east coast was really populated just saying. So it could be anything but I think it's likely vinifera. If you taste it and it doesn't have a foxy taste then it's probably European.

 

[balatonwine]

Am I off my rocker?

Not at all. Which is why I said "assuming this is vinifera". It may not be. May certainly be an American grape, not European. And California had immigrants from all over the place, who brought vines to plant with them. So a lot is possible. But also try the foxy test as CK55 said. Of course, that requires knowing what "foxy" should taste like (not everyone knows offhand).

 

[CK55]

Not at all. Which is why I said "assuming this is vinifera". It may not be. May certainly be an American grape, not European. And California had immigrants from all over the place, who brought vines to plant with them. So a lot is possible. But also try the foxy test as CK55 said. Of course, that requires knowing what "foxy" should taste like (not everyone knows offhand).

You will catch it even if you dont know what it tastes like, its deff a different taste.

 

[Zintrigue]

Of course, that requires knowing what "foxy" should taste like (not everyone knows offhand).

Was just gonna ask... if I google this am I going to get something **** or is it a well known wine term? (bearing in mind I've never actually tasted wine grapes before - the shame)

 

[sour_grapes]

You are safe at work!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitis_labrusca

 

[Scott Harbison]

I certainly don't know my grape leaves....yet....but the closest I've seen is Malbec, but even that doesn't look correct to me. The leaves you have appear more rounded.

 

[Zintrigue]

You are safe at work!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitis_labrusca

Oh wow. I wish I hadn't popped them in the freezer. Wonder if I can still do the skin test if I thaw a few out. If they are, indeed, foxy grapes then I probably won't want them in my wine.