luck with growing own root vinifera

[Snafflebit]

Hi all, I have a request from the vineyard owner to try propagating vines from canes of other Cab vines in the vineyard. These canes would come from nearby grafted vines and a prior winemaker suggested this. I am sceptical and I think it is not worth the risk, but maybe it would be fine?

 

[salcoco]

the cuttings will propagate but eventually the vines will die from the phylloxera mite. that is why the original vines are grafted. you could take the growing cuttings and graft onto root stock. but why all this work when you can buy the plant grafted at a reasonable price.

 

[Collie Flowers farm]

"MAYBE" greatly depending on your location and soil type but even in Washington where there has been alot of own rooted vines for decades are now finding the phylloxera bug.
There has been work on systemic pesticides to treat them, but I'm not aware if any have been released to the public or if they are effective.

 

[Collie Flowers farm]

Is there any evidence of the leaf form of phylloxera???

 

[Snafflebit]

I have not seen leaf phylloxera, but I hear it is not common in California. There is a new pesticide called Movento that protects against phylloxera and other sucking insects, which is kind of exciting, but I don't know anyone using it and it is expensive. I am certainly not going to spring for that when I could plant grafted plants.

 

[WellingtonToad]

I can't believe this discussion is happening.
The usa is where Phylloxera comes from. It is THE big negative that you gave the rest of the world.
Listen to Salcoco.
Leaf phylloxera, what?
Phylloxera winters in the soil. When the sap runs in the vine, the phylloxera migrates to the leaves. In autumn the leaves fall and the phylloxera moves to the roots where it does the damage.

 

[Johnd]

Boooo!

 

[Collie Flowers farm]

I can't believe this discussion is happening.
The usa is where Phylloxera comes from. It is THE big negative that you gave the rest of the world.
Listen to Salcoco.
Leaf phylloxera, what?
Phylloxera winters in the soil. When the sap runs in the vine, the phylloxera migrates to the leaves. In autumn the leaves fall and the phylloxera moves to the roots where it does the damage.

Phylloxera originated from the North eastern United States, but there are areas on the NW US where vinefra varieties have been grown for decades on their own rootstock as well as other parts of the world. So how can the answer to his question be anything but "maybe" ???
Also most people dont dig up their vines and inspect the roots for phylloxera, they look for evidence usually in the form of leaf Galls.
If the vineyard owner and previous wine maker think that they can grown own rooted vinefra they probably have a reason for believing so. Possibly from results of nearby vineyards doing so..

 

[bshef]

The OP is in California. From the UC IPM bulletin: Leaf-galling forms of phylloxera that are common in eastern states are extremely rare in California vineyards.
Here is the entire article.
http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/r302300811.html

The long and short, don't bother with rooting V. vinifera; graft to resistant rootstock.

 

[Collie Flowers farm]

https://www.stolpmanvineyards.com/blog/vineyard-revolution/own-rooted-vines-the-risk/

 

[Spudwrench12]

I have none root stock vines doing well in Missouri. Cab sav ,Sav Blanc and Pinio Gris . A little high maintenance but doing well.

 

[Snafflebit]

I have none root stock vines doing well in Missouri. Cab sav ,Sav Blanc and Pinio Gris . A little high maintenance but doing well.

very interesting, what type of issues have you seen with the cabernet sauvignon and sauvignon blanc in Missouri?

 

[efBobby]

I have a single vinifera I'm testing with. It was a gift so no investment but what I did was pot it up, sterilized the media with boiling water and seran wrapped it.

It has 2 inches of rocks on the bottom of the pot and sits in an inch of water. Doesn't get pulled into the soil but acts as a moat to ensure nothing tried to crawl up the holes in the bottom of the pot.

I will have had it a year in August but not a viable long term strategy mind you. Just something to experiment with.

The vine can be used for propagation but not much past that. It grows slowly due to the diffused light it receives and I can't really give it any direct light bc it would generate too much heat.

The sheer scale needed to make it viable would just be too much but I can just root lock it and dwarf it or if it falters root prune it every so often.

Only other use or way to make it viable would be to use it to produce vines to then be branch/bud grafted onto natives maybe? But at that point might as well graft it onto rootstock.

I'm keeping it(and cloning it) like this just to see if it I'll make it 3 years without dying.

If it does I will graft it onto rootstock and conclude the experiment. If it does not then I will grow one of the clones large enough to graft and conclude the experiment.