One of the 1 gallon jugs exploded...!!!

[Tom_S]

That's fine if you've left it long enough to clear as much of the live yeast population as possible. In my opinion, 3 weeks after starting the batch is way too early. There are just too many live viable yeast cells in the wine that will start munching away on the sugar regardless of how much sorbate you've added.

I usually wait until the wine has cleared quite a bit before racking and stabilizing.

 

[robie]

From the photo, looks like MLF to me, but no way I can't say for sure.

 

[geek]

robie, i wanted to point out that there was dust around the bottle, the only visible bubbles are the ones you see on the top, you cannot see bubbles around the jug coming up until you pay close attention to the top around the neck of the jug and placing the jug against a light.

I've seen people discussing MLF but I am not very sure of what it is and specially what to do and expect about it.

Any advice would be appreciated.

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[Tom_S]

MLF is malolactic fermentation, where a particular bacteria culture eats the lactic acid (IIRC) and changes the characteristics of a wine. It will change a wine from a fruity flavor to nutty or more earthy tones. I've personally not ever done an MLF on any of my wines so I'm far from an expert on it. Perhaps someone else better versed in that area can give more info.

 

[robie]

MLF tends to have that characteristic ring of bubbles around the top. It is not nearly as active a fermentation as alcohol fermentation. If you look closely at an MLF, you periodically might see some bubbles rising, but they are very few in number. It all depends on how active the MLF is.

Generally, the dose of Kmeta right after alcohol fermentation will prevent an MLF from happening. I think you did say you gave the standard dose at that time, so I cannot be sure if it is MLF.

How much Kmeta did you add when alcohol fermentation ended?

 

[robie]

MLF is malolactic fermentation, where a particular bacteria culture eats the lactic acid (IIRC) and changes the characteristics of a wine. .

Actually, it converts malolactic acid (the acid that makes a Granny Smith Apple so tart) to the softer lactic acid and to CO2. It is the CO2 portion that causes the bubbles. It can add a buttery flavor as well, which is a plus for some white wines, but not as positive for most reds.

Generally speaking, it softens a wine.

 

[geek]

robie, I added k-meta 1/4 tea spoon into the 5gal carboy.

So.....can anything be done now?

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[grapeman]

Actually, it converts malolactic acid (the acid that makes a Granny Smith Apple so tart) to the softer lactic acid and to CO2. It is the CO2 portion that causes the bubbles. It can add a buttery flavor as well, which is a plus for some white wines, but not as positive for most reds.

Generally speaking, it softens a wine.

Close- it is malic acid and malolactic bacteria converts it to the softer lactic acid.

 

[robie]

Close- it is malic acid and malolactic bacteria converts it to the softer lactic acid.

Thanks! No such thing as malolatic acid, huh? Ha! Close but no cigar!!!!!

 

[robie]

I just re-read the thread and realized you added sorbate. The last thing you want is MLF on a wine that has had sorbate added.

That 1/4 tsp of Kmeta per 5 gallons is a reasonable amount, considering you didn't test and don't know the PH of the wine. However, if the PH was really high, that would not have been enough to properly treat the wine. With the PH being high, it would be a great environment for MLF, compared to it being low.

Wow! I don't know what to tell you. I just know that with the sorbate present, the wine will not be drinkable after a full MLF.

#1 We know something is definitely happening to the wine. It is not just expelling CO2. It is either alcoholic fermentation or MLF, which?

#2 Why aren't all the other containers going through the same thing?

Is the SG falling back toward the point at which it was dry? This is important to know.

What about all the other containers? Is only the one container experiencing the bubbles?

 

[geek]

I just re-read the thread and realized you added sorbate. The last thing you want is MLF on a wine that has had sorbate added.

That 1/4 tsp of Kmeta per 5 gallons is a reasonable amount, considering you didn't test and don't know the PH of the wine. However, if the PH was really high, that would not have been enough to properly treat the wine. With the PH being high, it would be a great environment for MLF, compared to it being low.

Wow! I don't know what to tell you. I just know that with the sorbate present, the wine will not be drinkable after a full MLF.

#1 We know something is definitely happening to the wine. It is not just expelling CO2. It is either alcoholic fermentation or MLF, which?

#2 Why aren't all the other containers going through the same thing?

Is the SG falling back toward the point at which it was dry? This is important to know.

What about all the other containers? Is only the one container experiencing the bubbles?

all 3 jugs from this batch are doing the same thing regarding the bubbles.
This batch was an experiment only from a 5gal carboy, the rest of the batch (a demi john and another 5gal carboy) I didn't back sweeten.

As i had mentioned at the begining of this thread, i also had one single .750 bottle of this wine and tasted bad, it was sizzling, after a couple days in the refrig i took it out last night and did shake it with the cap loose and man it was like a volcano....i threw that wine out, no good.....I am afraid the 3 jugs will not get better....

The sorbate was added and then back sweeten a couple days after clearing. SG went from 0.994 to ~1.000, then I placed in jugs and the remainder in that .750 bottle.

I did the same exact process for my white riesling and it seems to be doing fine.

SIGH.........!!!!!!!!!!!!

..

 

[ffemt128]

I'm with others here. I'm leaning towards the fact that there was likely still some active yeast in the wine and when you back sweetened they started to do their job again. IMHO, based on your timeline, it is too short to be back sweetening. I realize kits say that that after a month you can stabilize and all will be well, but I would not consider back sweetening anything until it was a minimum 2 months or longer into the process(exception being skeeter pee). This gives you time to complete fermentation, degass, and add kmeta and sorbate to stabilize. I also would wait a week or 2 after adding the sorbate to back sweeten. If I add a fining agent, that will add a minimum of 2 weeks to allow further clearing, lately I've just been letting time handle that.

 

[seth8530]

You said that the wine sat at .994 for 4 days before you sweetened to 1.000.. Would you mind checking what the current gravity is right now? That way we can rule out a restarted fermentation... ( This would be good news).

 

[GreginND]

I am also concerned about the point Robie brought up - MLF with sorbate. You mentioned that one of your bottles tasted bad. Did it smell/taste like geraniums? That's a clear indication of MLF consuming sorbate.

 

[seth8530]

Yeah, that is why im hoping that it is alcoholic fermentation.

 

[geek]

I am checking the SG later today. That bottle that I tossed, it didn't realy smell bad, it tasted like a lot of sizzling "soda-like" and there was no body flavor to it.

I will report back later today. I think I am going to mix all 3 jugs into a pail, stir a bit and then measure the SG before i put it back into the jugs.

.

..

 

[robie]

You never answered our question about what the current SG reading is. That will tell us if alcohol fermentation is happening.

I think you have only one real option and that is to bet it is alcohol fermentation and let it finish again. It is very difficult to measure MLF without taking a reading, waiting a week or so, then taking another.

if you knew it is MLF, a good dose of Kmeta will stop it, but you don't know that.

Check and record the SG. Once finished bubbling, check the SG again. If it is back down, it was alcohol fermentation. If not and it tastes bad (like geraniums), it was MLF and there's not much you will be able to do but toss it.

I know lysosyme will inhibit an MLF from starting, but I don't know if it will stop an active MLF... I would guess not.

Let it finish whatever it is doing then taste... that's my advice.

 

[geek]

robie, as I mentioned i am checking the SG.....I just got home and will do this.

Question, would it be ok to leave all 3 jugs in a plastic pail with lid tight but loose cap (like in 1st fermentation) or do I must leave it under air-lock in the jugs?

 

[GreginND]

It's probably not fermenting very vigorously so I think it would be best to be under an airlock.

 

[geek]

I checked the SG placing the hydrometer into a 1gal jug (the best I could keep it in the middle) and it seems like it is around ~0.996

Before I back sweeten it was at 0.994 and after it came up at ~1.000, so now at ~0.996 could be a good sign?

Also, I tasted the wine in this jug and it is not bad at all, not like that single bottle that tasted like gas....

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