Opening a winery and vineyards--lessons learned?

[tjmeyer]

Hi all! I'm opening my first boutique (fancy word for silly small) winery in southern California and wanted to ask around for lessons learned. Check us out at meyerwine.com! What are some things that you would do differently/better if you had to do it all again?

The rest of this is just info, feel free to skip if uninterested:

Spoiler: More info

Currently, we have 24 acres, not all planted yet, but getting there. 4-6 acres are actively producing good to excellent qualify Zinfandel, Malbec, Sangiovese, and Sauvignon Blanc. More to come over the years. As weird as it sounds, the goal of the winery is to make good wine, not to turn in to an empire. I'm fine if we just break even.

I'm the only winemaker here, so it's a lot a work and I love it. I'm open to hiring. I'm very confident in the wine quality, and have awards to back it up, though I really don't think they should be required.

I'm currently doing batches of 50-60 gallons of must at a time (larger tanks aren't really viable just yet until we have more grapes). 112L (31ish gallons?) barrels because they're easier to with with than full size ones. I'd like to keep the winemaking as "homemade" as possible. Focusing on the terroir and history. I plan on hand labeling, hand corking (floor corkers), hand-crank crushing/destemming, air vacuum transfers or siphon only (no big must pumps), etc---yup, that kind of hand made! This isn't for financial reasons or anything like that, I just love the process.

Once open (just waiting on county and ABC permits now), I'm planning on doing a wine club subscription, direct to consumer shipping, on-site sales during events only, and limited on-site tasting.

 

[ChuckD]

Congratulations and good luck with your winery!

 

[tjmeyer]

Congratulations and good luck with your winery!

Thank you! I'm realizing that there are a number of threads asking the same thing. Welp, at least I introduced the winery!

 

[winemaker81]

There is a trend in wineries to do live music and host food trucks. Two wineries we visited in western NC last August did that. The crowds were huge.

 

[Bmd2k1]

Hi all! I'm opening my first boutique (fancy word for silly small) winery in southern California and wanted to ask around for lessons learned. Check us out at meyerwine.com! What are some things that you would do differently/better if you had to do it all again?

The rest of this is just info, feel free to skip if uninterested:

Spoiler: More info

Currently, we have 24 acres, not all planted yet, but getting there. 4-6 acres are actively producing good to excellent qualify Zinfandel, Malbec, Sangiovese, and Sauvignon Blanc. More to come over the years. As weird as it sounds, the goal of the winery is to make good wine, not to turn in to an empire. I'm fine if we just break even.

I'm the only winemaker here, so it's a lot a work and I love it. I'm open to hiring. I'm very confident in the wine quality, and have awards to back it up, though I really don't think they should be required.

I'm currently doing batches of 50-60 gallons of must at a time (larger tanks aren't really viable just yet until we have more grapes). 112L (31ish gallons?) barrels because they're easier to with with than full size ones. I'd like to keep the winemaking as "homemade" as possible. Focusing on the terroir and history. I plan on hand labeling, hand corking (floor corkers), hand-crank crushing/destemming, air vacuum transfers or siphon only (no big must pumps), etc---yup, that kind of hand made! This isn't for financial reasons or anything like that, I just love the process.

Once open (just waiting on county and ABC permits now), I'm planning on doing a wine club subscription, direct to consumer shipping, on-site sales during events only, and limited on-site tasting.

Congrats and Best of Luck!!!

Curious what kind of vessels are you using for fermentation and bulk aging?

Cheers!

 

[tjmeyer]

Congrats and Best of Luck!!!

Curious what kind of vessels are you using for fermentation and bulk aging?

Cheers!

We're using false bottom flat stainless steel fermenters. I just love the vacuum press method myself and have been hooked on fermenting/pressing in the same vessel for a number of years. These range from 20gallons up to 60 gallons. Will need to buy more or larger ones as the vineyard expands, haven't decided which yet. I'm leaning on the side of buying more since doing it as old school as possible is easier in smaller containers.

Bulk aging is being done in many many 112L barrels and concrete mounted stainless tanks, depending on the wine profile I'm going for for each batch.

I have sworn off glass and plastic. Glass out of necessity after a demijohn almost took off an employee's finger, and plastic because... well I'm terribly bias and archaic, I'd rather work with wood, concrete, or ceramic before anything plastic.

 

[Bmd2k1]

We're using false bottom flat stainless steel fermenters. I just love the vacuum press method myself and have been hooked on fermenting/pressing in the same vessel for a number of years. These range from 20gallons up to 60 gallons. Will need to buy more or larger ones as the vineyard expands, haven't decided which yet. I'm leaning on the side of buying more since doing it as old school as possible is easier in smaller containers.

Bulk aging is being done in many many 112L barrels and concrete mounted stainless tanks, depending on the wine profile I'm going for for each batch.

I have sworn off glass and plastic. Glass out of necessity after a demijohn almost took of an employee's finger, and plastic because... well I'm terribly bias and archaic, I'd rather work with wood, concrete, or ceramic before anything plastic.

Bravo!

Any pics to share?

 

[tjmeyer]

Bravo!

Any pics to share?

I'll have gather a few, but a lot of construction work pictures at the moment

Here are a few I have on hand.
Living in a trailer, bought big piece of dirt lol



Started planting vines, LOTS of construction


Things are slowly coming together after 3 years of work! Permits and licenses are almost done. It's an estate winery, so we're living here too. Been an adventure!



Lots more pictures here: https://www.meyerwine.com/gallery

I was just thinking about it... a lot of wine imbibers seem to think wine is "fancy". Well, it's NOT--that's post WWII advertising showing through. It's hard work, dirty, expensive, and gritty. If there isn't some sweat and tears in your must from someone, something isn't right. After doing so much work I just can't seem to bring myself to create wine using automation.... It feels wrong.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

Congratulations and good luck!

You may know this already but there is another Meyer winery in CA, in Mendocino county: https://www.meyerfamilycellars.com. I have no connection to them other than that I live relatively nearby...

 

[tjmeyer]

Congratulations and good luck!

You may know this already but there is another Meyer winery in CA, in Mendocino county: https://www.meyerfamilycellars.com. I have no connection to them other than that I live relatively nearby...

I'm aware! And thank you!

 

[ChuckD]

Such an arid landscape. Starkly beautiful but you won’t catch me there in the heat of summer. A winter visit maybe.

 

[tjmeyer]

Such an arid landscape. Starkly beautiful but you won’t catch me there in the heat of summer. A winter visit maybe.

It is arid! But not as hot as it looks. Hottest I've ever seen it was 105 one crazy week 2 years ago. Since then it hasn't broke 100 consistently at all.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

Let me just say congrats on starting a new winery, I started a winery with a friend in 2023, we processed 13 tons of grapes last year and will do 30 ish this fall. We don’t own our own vineyard we have a contract with another winery for grapes because we wanted to save costs on managing a vineyard and because I would rather visit vineyards pick fruit from specific locations and do unique wines periodically that showcase a specific location and I can change what we produce as required and not really have to worry about being stuck with any varietal in particular.

If you ever have any problems I would be more than happy to help if you need any help with anything. I would also suggest planting more Zinfandel it’s my favorite varietal and I am extremely knowledgeable about working with it, Zinfandel has a lot of quirks and requires finesse to not encounter problems and so it does not end up out of balance.

 

[Aldo]

Hi @tjmeyer im also opening a small winery in Ojos Negros Valley bout 45 minutes from Ensenada, starting from scratch, we planted vines 4.5 years ago and this will be our first year producing wines. Feel on a similar boat than you guys. Right now we are building the cellar and looking for a chiller, few stainless steel tanks, some plastic ones, etc. a bit tight in time for this year harvest but looking to get done a couple of reds, whites with red grapes, whites, a champenoise method sparkling, etc. all experimental and in small quantities ... Will be bringing tents to work this year and hopefully over the next couple years will be adding a few shipping containers to build the facility... Definitely interested in learning from you guys, whats your winery IG? you can get in touch @trinidadcorrado... Cheers

 

[Nebbiolo020]

Hi @tjmeyer im also opening a small winery in Ojos Negros Valley bout 45 minutes from Ensenada, starting from scratch, we planted vines 4.5 years ago and this will be our first year producing wines. Feel on a similar boat than you guys. Right now we are building the cellar and looking for a chiller, few stainless steel tanks, some plastic ones, etc. a bit tight in time for this year harvest but looking to get done a couple of reds, whites with red grapes, whites, a champenoise method sparkling, etc. all experimental and in small quantities ... Will be bringing tents to work this year and hopefully over the next couple years will be adding a few shipping containers to build the facility... Definitely interested in learning from you guys, whats your winery IG? you can get in touch @trinidadcorrado... Cheers

We went all plastic as stainless tanks had such a long lead time and the prices were mental.

For plastic tanks look at FlexTanks they are the best quality plastic wine tanks on the market.

 

[Aldo]

@Nebbiolo020 thanks, we are able to source some ss tanks already imported into Mexico and in stock, so it will be a mix I think for the reds, better to do sooner than later. But jacketed tanks and cooling system is what I need to learn and find the best way to not spend an eye just yet ... Any input on that? thanks

 

[ovjock]

Congrats! I have what I think is a key question - are you doing this for fun or to make a profit? The advice will change a lot depending on the answer.

 

[foxenburg]

@Nebbiolo020 thanks, we are able to source some ss tanks already imported into Mexico and in stock, so it will be a mix I think for the reds, better to do sooner than later. But jacketed tanks and cooling system is what I need to learn and find the best way to not spend an eye just yet ... Any input on that? thanks

I use an old bar glycol beer chiller into that I bought for around $200 (I use water in the bath instead of glycol)...and run the lines through stainless steel coil tubing (serpentines/snakes) that I put in the wine tank. I have a $5 temp controller set to start up at 15C and switch off at 12C. I run two lines into two tanks...each line can easily cope with 1 000 litres.
I have taken the lid off the chiller so you can see the two little pumps that sit in the water or glycol bath. The other photo shows the lines going into a tank (both into one tank as I have thus far only pressed 500 litres of Viognier and don't know how to switch off one set of lines...so it would run 24/7 if left at ambient temp). Anyway, the upshot is I cool two tanks to a steady 15C for peanuts.

 

[Aldo]

@ovjock yes sir ! that's the plan, we planted 25 acres 4 years ago in a land we own to sell grapes as a main income in our business plan (to recoup the inversion more quickly and to support the wine operation) but the wine making its also in our revenue plans. Feel tempted to get one of one of those portable chillers but run 10-20K to ferment and be able to stabilize (cold and hot) but not sure how many years will take to actually stop being an overkill lol and of course the investment will put a big dent in the rest of my budget for the build out. I was also looking at More wine mini chilly that does similar what @foxenburg is doing -thanks for that by the way- with water/glycol baths and pump kits, up to 10 I believe... That's about 4k, trying to figure out if we go all in with bigger one. @foxenburg its really interesting to know that you can keep cool to ferment with the serpentines just with water and a affordable set up, but will look more into how can we do the tartaric stabilization (25-28F) with that type a set up and glycol/water mix, maybe cooling smaller proportions splitting the 1000 liters in four?

 

[ovjock]

@Aldo Good info, thx.

I spent a long, long time researching before deciding not to invest in a large winery in Amadore county.

My high level feedback is that if you want to make money in retail winemaking, you need to start studying wine tasting rooms and wine clubs. For boutique wineries, most of the profit comes from the wine club (recurring revenue) which comes from the wine tasting room.

It may seem counter intuitive but the quality of the wine is secondary to the wine tasting experience. The average wine drinker can’t tell the difference between a $10 bottle of wine and a $100 bottle of wine. Even so called experts can’t always tell (Check this out).

Some research shows that 90% of small winery profit comes from wine clubs (where people are signed up in the tasting room). Since it is such big business, California has TONS of great research on how to optimize your wine tasting room.

Sell your wine grapes as a last resort.

Drive people to your winery with social media.

The MOST profitable wineries are ones that do not grow their own grapes but buy them from other people. My .02!