when good wines gone bad

[joeswine]

Neviawen

GLAD TO HEAR IT.

I WAS WITH TOM LAST NIGHT AND I WILL PICK HIM UP NEXT FRIDAY FOR BREAKFAST THEN WILL GO TO MY PLACE AND HE WILL GET ME ON AS A MODERATOR ,FOR THE SOUTH JERSEY WINE MAKERS.
( TO ALL READERS)
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO KNOW TOM ,HE IS HOLDING HIS OWN AT THE MOMENT,ITS A VERY HARD FIGHT ,ALL UP HILL,31ST I WILL PICK HIM UP AND TAKE HIM TO BREAKFAST,GO TO MY HOUSE DO A LITTLE WORK HE WANT TO SEE AND THEN TAKE HIM HOME ,PROBABLE WILL IN STALL WASH SINK IN HIS BASEMENT FOR HIM TOWARDS THE END OF THE DAY,HE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE ONE,THAT'S WHAT WINE MAKING DOES,IT CAN TURN ASSOCIATES IN TO FRIENDS THROUGH THE BOND OF A COMMON IDEAS .

 

[joeswine]

Neviawen

GLAD TO HEAR IT.

I WAS WITH TOM LAST NIGHT AND I WILL PICK HIM UP NEXT FRIDAY FOR BREAKFAST THEN WILL GO TO MY PLACE AND HE WILL GET ME ON AS A MODERATOR ,FOR THE SOUTH JERSEY WINE MAKERS.

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO KNOW TOM ,HE IS HOLDING HIS OWN AT THE MOMENT,ITS A VERY HARD FIGHT ,ALL UP HILL,31ST I WILL PICK HIM UP AND TAKE HIM TO BREAKFAST,GO TO MY HOUSE DO A LITTLE WORK HE WANT TO SEE AND THEN TAKE HIM HOME ,PROBABLE WILL IN STALL WASH SINK IN HIS BASEMENT FOR HIM TOWARDS THE END OF THE DAY,HE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE ONE,THAT'S WHAT WINE MAKING DOES,IT CAN TURN ASSOCIATES IN TO FRIENDS THROUGH THE BOND OF A COMMON IDEAS .

 

[joeswine]

Tom a good day

Well as I stated I picked up time today ,this is Friday, around 930 he he lives in delanco which is about an hour for me I brought him his sink the faucet snuggle back later installed for him .

Took him to lunch a place called Barbara Ann's in Clayton New Jersey small little bistro basically American food , we had our lunch settle for my house came down the basement and proceeded to set me up as a moderator for our South Jersey winemakers website . I could see you as very tired so after he got done it to come directly home , it's an uphill fight. H

 

[ibglowin]

We are always thinking and praying for Tom these days. Know its an uphill fight but never give up, never surrender!

 

[joeswine]

He needs support

He needs all of your support, it hurts me to think I'm losing another friend and fellow winemaker. If you are reading this then send- e-mail telling him your thinking of him, he would very much appreciated it.


In this hurry up world we live in it takes times like this to appreciate what we have and those we're losing . G

Thank you all for following when good winegone bad.... JP

 

[Runningwolf]

Thanks for the update, Joe.

 

[joeswine]

Getting back sanitation

The most basic for sanitation use by canning people is boiling water and grade disinfectant cleaner, but not really effective for the home winemaker .



Chlorine, is a basic household bleach is the most universal acceptable sanitizer and is an excellent cleaner and disinfectant. However, if wine making equipment is not rinsed well with this copious amounts of hot water after sanitation, you may inadvertently leave small chlorine residue behind. At the very least ,this will impart off taste to your wine -or worse, it can ruin your wine. If you can handle the cleaning methods with chlorine- even though it is a great sanitizer, don't do it.


I personally use a very small amount of chlorine when ID label sanitize my bottles in the primary stage of their cleaning , and that's all, cause you never know where you're getting your wine bottles from, what may be in them, or how long it's been in the only way to really sanitize bottles, unless you used the system small amount of bleach on large amount of water and then thoroughly cleaned.
b-BRITE, 's proprietary formulated sanitizer powder made specifically for the wine making in beer making industry it cleans with active oxygen , and does not contain chlorine or by sulfite's. it also removes fermentation residues , so I recommend this type of cleaner , easy clean is another brand of oxygen cleaner just like one step and b-BRITE these great cleaners I recommend , all three brand .
D
Will continue great holiday

 

[joeswine]

Last but not least

What we went through the gauntlet of cleaners last but not least is potassium metabisulfite we can always buy potassium metabisulfite in powder form ,usually sold to home winemakers in 4 ounce bags are 1 pound bags. This chemical works well as a sanitizing agent because it is a bacterial inhibitor. Since there is no and earth materials in this form you don't need to add a lot of crystals to make a great sanitizing solution .usually 1 teaspoon crystals is in 1 gallon of water to make solution comparison. Will somewhere out there is another thread about sanitizing and cleaning ,I also hope this little bit is informative enough to make you make the correct decision for you is critically important to clean and sanitize .that's all for now............. Say tunedN

 

[Lkerr918]

I would like to say this is a great thread. As I am just a beginner with only 8 batches of wine made so far. I have learned so much from this thread. I would just like to say thank you for the knowledge you are passing on to us new guys in the hobby.
Cheers Logan

 

[joeswine]

Lkeerr918

THANK YOU FOR THE REPLY,I TRY TO EXTEND THE PIT FALLS AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS WELL AS THE DO'S AND DON'T THAT ALL OF US, WHO HAVE BEEN MAKING WINE FOR A WHILE ,NOW, RUN INTO UNDER NORMAL CONDITIONS,AND WHAT IT TAKES TO GO INTO COMPETITIONS, (IT DOESN'T MATTER), THE PROCESS IS THE SAME,JUST THE HORSE CHANGES,THANKS AGAIN,AND REMEMBER THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX,HAVE FUN.

 

[joeswine]

Wine faults

Okay, we are getting into the wine making season everybody take a look at your toolbox got everything you need?
Let's go

Let's talk about wine faults and/or defects that are common to us as home winemakers . . What are wine faults or defect . It's an unpleasant characteristic of the wine often resulting from poor wine making practices storage conditions, a leading to wine spoilage. . Many of the compounds that cause wine faults are already naturally present in the wine but add in sufficient concentrations to adversely affected it . . In fact, depending on the precipitation , . These concentrations may impart positive characteristics to the wine., however when the concentration of these compounds greatly exceeds the sensory thresholds , they replace or obscure the flavors and aromas that wine should be expressing . ultimately the quality of the wine is reduced, making it less appealing and sometimes just undrinkable .

There are many causes for the precipitation in wine faults ranging from poor hygiene at the winery excessive and or insufficient exposure of wind oxygen , excessive or insufficient exposure of wine to sulfur , overextended maceration of wine either pre-or post-fermentation , faulty finding , filtering the stabilization of the wine , , the use of dirty oak barrels or extended barrel aging and the use of poor quality corks . outside of the winery and in our basement and cellers . when We make our wine we are at the same level of wine faults or defects . . These include poor storage of wine that's exposes to excessive heat and temperature fluctuations, as well as the use of dirty utensils during wine making that can introduce materials or aromas to, What was previously a clean and fault free wine .

Before we go on , let's discuss the differences between flaws and faults .differences made between what is considered a flaw in a fault . wine flaws are mirrored attributes that depart from what is perceived as a normal wine characteristics .. These include excessive sulfur dioxide , volatile acidity , Brett aromas and or buttery aromas . . The amount to which these aromas or attributes become excessive it is dependent on the particular taste or recognition threshold a wine taster has . , so let's put this way . The one thing you should know before you make wine is first of all what type of wine my making is a Cabernet . Do you know what Cabernet Savignon is supposed to taste like and what are the characteristics of the wine.further back in this thread you'll find wine characteristics, (knowing your wines characteristic)
You should know the taste makeup Cabernet Savignon if that's what you're trying to make.
Generally, a wine exhibits these qualities are still considered drinkable by most. however , some flaws, such as volatile acidity can be considered a flaws when they are in such excess that the issue will overwhelm the components of the wine . wine faults are generally major attributes that make a wine undrinkable, Two most wine tasters. things that you should recognize , cork taint, ethyl acetate and oxidation are some common ones

So many times at our wine meetings ,I hear somebody say hey, try this just made it this year , the bottle gets past smells real bad off odors and by the way it doesn't taste like the wine its label on the bottle .knowing your wine characteristics is very important its the difference between starting out making wine , learning what the correct sanitation needs are having the proper tools and knowing the characteristics and process of your wine making .. Most of these things come with time, practice and the ability to want to make a good bottle of wine..
Defects,Also wine tasting the best majority of wine falsity acted by the nose and distinctive aromas that they give off.these are the same qualities that make a good wine , good .. You can tell when you open a bottle of good wine doesn't have a good aroma ?does it have good color ? when you swirling glass doesn't have legs ? . And last but not least doesn't taste like the wine you purchased ? , but you'll never know that . If you don't know the characteristics of the wine that You're making,let's move on .
Let's say for example premature oxidation can notice by the yellowing in the Browning of wine color . sign of gas bubbles in wines that are not meant sparkling can be a sign of re-fermentation or malolactic fermentation happening in the bottle . usually Raced into the color of the wine can be a sign of excessive copper iron ore proteins that will not remove during finding or filtering. a wine with an unusual color for its variety or wine region could be the sign of excess or insufficient maceration ( that's if you're using grapes were fresh product ) or as well as poor temperature controls during fermentation. tactile Clues a potential one faults include, the burning that acidic taste associates with the volatile acidity's that can make a wine scene out of balance .

Next up Wine faults and characteristics F

 

[joeswine]

Newsflash

First place, Vineland wine Festival, semidry white,piesporter.


Third place, , Zinfandel pomegranate

Good to know efforts go reward

 

[ibglowin]

Congrats Joe!

 

[joeswine]

Wine faults

LETS GO OVER SOME OF THE ONES WE CAN ENCOUNTER IN OUR WINE MAKING EXPERIENCES.

FIRST OXIDATION,

THIS IS THE MOST COMMON OF WINE FAULTS AS THE PRESENCE OF OXYGEN AND A CATALYST ARE THE ONLY REQUIREMENTS FOR THIS PROCESS TO OCCUR.

THIS IS EXCEPT ABLE IF YOUR MAKING A TYPE OF PORT ,ONLY. WHICH IS INTENTIONALLY OXIDIZED.

OXIDATION CAN AND DOES OCCUR THROUGHOUT THE WINE MAKING PROCESS AND EVEN AFTER THE WINE HAS BEEN BOTTLED.


TO BE CONTINUED

 

[joeswine]

Wine faults continued

OXIDATION.


THIS IS A REAL TIME PROBLEM,IF YOU FOLLOW OTHER THREADS YOU'LL SEE TIME AND TIME AGAIN THE SAME PROBLEMATIC QUESTIONS,THAT'S THE NATURE OF THIS CRAFT AND FOR NEW WINES MAKERS IT CAN BE VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND WHY AND HOW TO STAY AS CLEAN AND TIGHT TO THE PROCESS AS POSSIBLE FOR WHAT WE DEAL WITH FOR THE MOST PART IS RAW PRODUCT ,WEATHER ITS IN A BUCKET ,VACUUMED SEAL BAG,FRUIT OR GRAPES,AND WHAT EVER ELSE YOU CHOSE TO FERMENT,OXIDATION IS A REAL TIME PROBLEM.

PHENOLS PRESENT IN THE WINE ARE THOSE EASILY OXIDIZED WHICH LEADS TO,THE LOSE OF ;

FLAVOR,COLOR AND AROMA

APART FROM PHENOLIC OXIDATION ,THE ETHANOL PRESENT WITHIN THE WINE CAN ALSO BE OXIDIZED INTO OTHER COMPOUNDS RESPONSIBLE FOR FLAVOR AND AROMA TAINTS.


THIS IS A VERY BIG HITTER ON OUR LIST TO BE CONTINUED

 

[joeswine]

Oxidation

THE OVER EXPOSURE OF THE JUICE TO THE ATMOSPHERE, IMPROPER RACKING TECHQICS AND OVER USE OF POORLY FITTING BUNGS AND NOT KEEPING AND EYE ON EMPTYING AIR LOCKS ALL LEAD TO OXIDATION,THE PROCESS OF RACKING SHOULD BE AS SWIFT AS POSSIBLE WITH LITTLE OR NOT AIR CONTACT,AT HOME THIS IS NOT ALWAYS POSSIBLE,I KNOW,WHEN BOTTLING HAVING EVERY ITEM TO BE USED AT HAND AND IN ITS PLACE, BE AS SYSTEMATIC AND AS STREAMLINED AS POSSIBLE,SO THAT GOOD BOTTLING METHOD CAN TAKE PLACE,YOU MUST HAVE THE TOOLS ON HAND AND A GRASP OF THE WINE MAKING PROCESS EVENIF YOU HAVE TO RUN THROUGH A SIMULATION TO GET YOUR COMPONENTS ALL IN PLACE,NOT BEING PREPARED IS NOT A GOOD THING,IN THIS CRAFT.::



NEXT CORK TAINT..............

 

[joeswine]

Cork taint

Cork taint is a wine fault mostly attributed to the compound trichloranisle, also known as TCA, although other compounds such as guaiacol and others are also thought to be involved .. Most likely originates as a metabolic or mold growth with the chlorine bleach wine corks and barrels. Because his earthly, molding, and musty aromas in the wine that easily master natural flavor aromas, making the wind very unappealing. Winds in the state are often described as corked. A court painter has gained a wide reputation as a wine fault , other faults are often mistakenly attributed.
Okay, , here we go , now very few of us use chlorine bleach anywhere around our product , as has been discussed here and on other threads on this forum do not use chlorine bleach unless you absolutely know how , and that is still not recommended. So how does cork taint start well as stated above . There are many theories one of my pet theories is this as the court is designed so especially the corks We use . I think sometimes it has to do with the waivers of the bottles and quality of the water that we are using . Sometimes the sediment in the water itself has a high chlorine content , do you rinse your corks,. How about your carboys . You sanitize them first let them drain and then using once again go back to the quality water that reusing . The corks themselves , when they are manufactured, especially the ones we use have microscopic grooves in them depending on the manufacturer sometimes and sanitation methods is up to speed , away around this if you know you are going to do a bottle of 30 , take out 30 corks place the a bowl dust them kmet, now you protect them and your wine .

Go back and read cleaning , sanitation and sterilization . These are the forerunners of this problem , . Anything your hands touches in the winemaking order mouth or any part of you should be thoroughly sanitized............ Cork taint is a real problem.. At one time or another we have all been faced with .............. Stay tuned coming up next lightning strikes ............

 

[joeswine]

Rememberring the difference

DO YOU REMEMBER THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN K MET AND SORBATE ?


HOW ABOUT HOW OXYGEN EFFECTS WINE AND HOW TO AVOID?????

DID YOU READ THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SANITATION,CLEANING AND STERILIZATION?

 

[joeswine]

lactic acid bacteria

LACTIC ACID BACTERIA HAVE A USEFUL ROLE IN WINE MAKING CONVERTING MALIC ACID INTO LACTIC ACID IN MALOLACTIC FERMENTATION.HOWEVER AFTER THIS FUNCTION HAS COMPLETED THE BACTERIA MAY STILL BE PRESENT WITHIN THE WINE,WHERE THEY CAN METABOLISE OTHER COMPOUNDS AND PRODUCE WINE FAULTS.WINES THAT HAVE NOT UNDERGONE MLF MAY BE CONTAMINATE WITH LACTIC ACID BACTERIA, LEADING TO REFERNMENTATION AO THE WINE WITH ITBECOMING TURBID,.SWAMPY,AND SLIGHTLY EFFERVESCENTOR FIZZY.THIS CAN BE AVOIDED BY STERILE FILTERING WINE DIRECTLY BEFORE BOTTLING.LACTIC ACID BACTERIA CAN ALO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR OTHER WINE FAULTS SUCH AS ,BITTERNESS .\\\

 

[Pumpkinman]

Great post, very informative!!!