when good wines gone bad

[joeswine]

Pumpkinman

THANK YOU, THERE IS A GREAT MANY EXPERIENCES I LIKE TO SHARE, NOT JUST MINE , BUT MY FELLOW WINEMAKERS THAT I HAVE BEEN PRIVILEGED TO KNOW THROUGH THE GOOD AND THE BAD ..

I ENJOY THE WRITING AND HOPE THAT SOME OF YOU WILL ENJOY THE READING AND WALK AWAY WITH MY EXPERIENCES AS AN AMATEUR ONE MAKER ,. I MADE EVERY MISTAKE IN THE BOOK AND REWROTE SOME OF THE PAGES ,, I HOPE YOU FIND SOME OF THIS HELPFUL PLEASE KEEP ON READING YOURS JP .

 

[joeswine]

Bugs in the wine


Have you ever thought about that? What do bugs add to the wine?


Have you ever heard about ladybug taint some insects present in the grapes at harvest inevitably end up in the press and for the most part are inoffensive. Others, , notably types of ladybugs or ladybirds , also known as Asian lady beetles release unpleasant volatile compounds as a defense mechanism when disturbed . If sufficient quantities these can affect the wines bouquet and taste. They are noticeably detectable the principal active compounds that are present are rancid peanut butter , bitterherbaceous, green bell pepper , or cat urine.. This is also naturally occurring compounds and sauvignongrapes so ladybug taint has been known to make Rieslings taste like sauvignon blanc

so much for bugs.

 

[joeswine]

Detecting wine faults

ACETALDEHYDE-------SMELL OF ROASTED NUTS OR DRIED OUT STRAW.


AMYL-ACETATE------SMELL OF FAKE CANDY BANANA FLAVORING.


BRETTANOMYCE----------SMELL OF BARNYARDS, FECAL AND GAMEY HORSE AROMAS.

THESE ARE FOR REAL.............HAVE YOU NOTICED THEM??????????????????

 

[joeswine]

wine defects and faults

go back and reread these effects on your wine and the conditions that can cause them ,usually it stems from pour sanitation or handling of the product,before ,during and after the process,it takes very little effort to get
information and put it to work .plan what your going to make think about the process,have the correct tools at hand ,know when to apply the chems,or not,start with sanitation and work froward,a wine maker without a plan is headed for a problem,especially if your using fresh fruit or grapes or fresh juice....plan your work and work your plan..

 

[joeswine]

Oxidation

LETS GO OVER THIS ONE MORE TIME

THE OXIDATION OF WINE IS PERHAPS THE MOST COMMON OF WINE FAULTS,AS THE PRESENCE OF OXYGEN AND A CATALYST ARE THE ONLY REQUIREMENTS FOR THE PROCESS TO OCCUR.OXIDATION CAN OCCUR THROUGH OUT THE WINE MAKING PROCESS,AND EVEN AFTER THE WINE HAS BEEN BOTTLED.PHENOL PRESENT IN WINE ARE THOSE MOST EASILY OXIDISED,WHICH LEADS TO LOST OF COLOR,FLAVOR AND AROMA,SOMETIMES WE REFER TO IT AS A WINE THAT IS FLATT.THERE ARE ETHANOL PRESENT WITHIN WINE CAN ALSO BE OXIDISED INTO OTHER COMPOUNDS RESPONSIBLE FOR FLAVOR AND AROMA TAINTS.


THE HANDLING OF THE WINE MAKING PROCESS IS A VERY CRITICAL STEP AS IS ALL AND CONTRIBUTE TO A GREAT DEAL OF DEFECTS AND FAULTS...

KEEP REVIEWING THE PROCESS UNTIL IT BECOMES SECOND NATURE ..

 

[joeswine]

Air locks?

BY NOW ALL OF YOU WHO HAVE MADE FRESH JUICE FROM CALIFORNIA OR ITALY,OR EVEN THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE KIT BOND,WE ALL HAVE A LOT IN COMMON FIRST AND FOREMOST WE ALL USE SOME TYPE OF VESSEL TO STORE OR PREPARE IT IN,SECONDLY WE ALL ARE USING AIR LOCKS OF SOME TYPE,AND THIRDLY WE ALL USE SOME SORT OF A BUNG OR STOPPER TO HOLE IT IN PLACE.

THERE'S WERE YOU NEED TO PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO: ASK YOUR SELF HOW ONE IS THE STOPPER? DID I SANITIZE IT PRIOR TO USE?AND IS IT STILL FITTING THE CARBOY PROPERLY,TO MANT TIMES WE TEND TO USE STOPPER THAT HAVE LIVED OUT THEIR USEFULNESS AND DON'T REALIZE THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR ACTION,A POOR FITTING STOPPER IS A OXIDATION PROBLEM JUST WAITING TO OCCURS AND YOU THOUGH IT FIT? WENT THEY GET TO OLD THEY NO LONGER SEAL PROPERLY YOU SHOULD REPLACE THEM EVERY FEW YEARS THE EXPANSION IN THE ORIFICE WERE THE AIR LOCK ALSO STRETCHES OUT OF SHAPE AND BEFORE YOU KNOW IT THE AIR LOCK IS 3/4 OF THE WAY DOWN,NOT GOOD,SANATIZE YOUR ARE LOCKS ALSO IT DOESN'T TAKE LONG TO PREPARE ,TRY USING GLYCERIN TO FILL THEM WITH IT LAST A LOT LONGER THEN WATER ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE MANY OTHER ITEMS TO PAY ATTENTION TO OR YOUR GOING AWAY FOR A WHILE,ANOTHER SOURCE OF OXIDATION WHEN THE RUN DRY,REMEMBER .OXIDATION IS YOUR BIGGEST EMENY WINE WINE MAKING BE PROACTIVE AND TAKE THE TIME TO SET UP FOR THE LONG TERM AGING PROCESS OR JUST THE PROPER PROCESS IN GENERAL.


IN THIS ART FORM PAYING ATTENTION TO THE DETAILS MAKES A GREAT OVERALL DIFFERENCE IN THE OUTCOME.. FOR A LOT OF US JANUARY AND FEBRUARY WILL BE BUSY IN WINE WORKS,RACKING AND SUCH,TAKE THE TIME TO THINK OUT YOUR PLAN,DON'T OVER HANDLE.....

 

[joeswine]

The process

ALWAYS,KEEP IN THE FRONT OF YOUR MIND THE PROCESS AND THE STEPS IT TAKES TO GET TO THE FINAL PRODUCT.PLAN YOUR WORK AND WORK YOUR PLAN,HAVE YOUR TOOL BOX READY AND UP DATED WITH FRESH SUPPLIES AS NEEDED ,THE ONE THING YOU DON'T WANT IS TO BE CAUGHT SHORT OF SOME ITEM SHORT ON A SUNDAY AND NO WAY TO STOP AND NO WAY TO GO. REMEMBER AND RECORD, DATA FOR THE NEXT TIME,FRESH YEAST IS BETTER THAN DEAD YEAST

PLAN YOUR WORK AND WORK YOUR PLAN

 

[joeswine]

Wonderfull world of yeast

THE LITTLE MICROBE'S THAT COULD

COMING TO A CARBOY NEAR YOU SOON

 

[joeswine]

Yeast in the beginning





THE ROLE OF YEAST AND WINE MAKING IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT THAT DISTINGUISHES WINE FROM GRAPES JUICE .IN THE ABSENCE OF OXYGEN YEAST IS CONVERTS THE SUGARS OF THE WINE GRAPES INTO ALCOHOL AND CARBON DIOXIDE THROUGH THE PROCESS OF FERMENTATION. THE MORE SUGARS IN THE GRAPES. THE HIGHER THE POTENTIAL ALCOHOL LEVEL OF THE WINE IF THE WIND YEAST ARE ALLOWED TO CARRY OUT FERMENTATION TO DRYNESS. SOMETIMES WINEMAKERS. FERMENTATION EARLY IN ORDER TO LEAVE SOME RESIDUAL SUGARS AND SWEETENERS IS AND THE WINDS , SUCH AS WITH DESSERT WINES. THIS CAN BE ACHIEVED BY DROPPING FERMENTATION TEMPERATURES TO THE POINT WHERE YEAST ARE INACTIVE STERILIZED FILTERING THE WINE TO REMOVE THE YEAST OR FORTIFICATION WITH BRANDY TO KILL OFF THE YEAST CELLS. IF FERMENTATION IS UNINTENTIONALLY STOPPED , SUCH AS WHEN THE YEAST BECOME EXHAUSTED OF AVAILABLE NUTRIENTS, AND THE WINE HAS NOT YET REACHED DRYNESS. THIS IS CONSIDERED A STOCK FERMENTATION . WELL, HOW MANY TIMES IS THAT COME UP ON THIS FORM QUITE A FEW I SUPPOSE BUT WHAT DOES IT REALLY MEAN IN OUR TERMS WELL KNOWING HOW TO USE A HYDROMETER IN DETERMINING WHAT THE POTENTIAL ALCOHOL IS AND THE JUICE , WINE WERE GOING TO MAKE KNOWING HOW TO USE NUTRIENTS DESPITE THE GROWTH IN TEMPERATURE AND HOW IT CONTRIBUTES TO THE OVERALL PERFORMANCE OF THE YEAST SOUNDS LIKE. SCIENCE DOES NOT? AND IT IS FOURTH OUT KNOWING THE CHARACTERIZATIONS OF THE WINE YOU WILL NEVER KNOW WE ARE AT AND THIS MY FRIEND COMES FROM TIME LISTENING AND LEARNING AND HAVING THE RIGHT TOOLS IN YOUR TOOLBOX.

YOU SKIP AROUND A LITTLE BIT, WAS JUMP AHEAD, LET US TALK ABOUT TO MANUFACTURERS OF YEAST THAT I USE,LAVLIN AND REDSTAR................. AM SURE EVERYONE HAS HAD THEIR HANDS ON ONE OF THESE LITTLE PACKETS. WERE DO YOU KEEP YOURS ?

IF YOU LOOK IN THE BACK OF THE PACKAGE . A RED STAR WILL FIND IT RECOMMENDS THAT YOU KEEP REFRIGERATED . LIKEWISE LALVIN ................. F YOU LOOK AT THE PACKAGE. IT WILL ALSO HAVE AN EXPIRATION DATE. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT ,TO BOTH TELL YOU HOW TO DISSOLVE THE YEAST AND WATER (WARM WATER AT HUNDRED 9° )LET IT SET START TO REHYDRATE AND THEN USE IN A LOT OF CASES KIT WINE MAKING MANUFACTURERS WILL TELL YOU TO JUST SPRINKLE IT ON TOP . EITHER WAY, IT WILL WORK . IT ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR PREFERENCE. SO FOR NOW I AM GOING TO LEAVE YOU WITH THIS DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN KMET AND SORBATE AND I ASK YOU TO PRINT OUT THE EXPLANATION OF EACH AND POST IT IN YOUR WORK AREA SO THAT YOU CAN REFER TO IT HAVE A GLANCE : LAVIN WEBSITE AND RED STAR PRINT OUT THEIR PROFILES . KEEP THAT IN YOUR FOLDER. ALSO FOR DIFFERENT YEAST CONTRIBUTE DIFFERENT FACTORS TWO DIFFERENT STYLES OF WINE , RED AND WHITE. SO BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER WE GIVE YOU CHANCE FOR YOU NUBIANS TO GO ONLINE PRINT OUT A COPY OF RED STAR YEAST PROFILES AND LAVIN'S YEAST PROFILES THEN WE CAN START TALKING ABOUT YEAST .................

 

[Morgan]

Joe, subscribing finally to this thread. Read the whole thing and can't tell you how much I appreciate all the knowledge and philosophy you're contributing! Carry on Sir!

 

[joeswine]

Review the start of yeast

REVIEW THE START OF YEAST.........

 

[joeswine]

Yeast the little microb that could

THE ROLE OF YEAST IN WINEMAKERS THE MOS T IMPORTANT ELEMENT THAT DISTINGUISHES WINE FROM GRAPE JUICE.

OK WE GOT IT! THERE ARE WILD YEASY AND CULTURED YEAST THATS WERE THIS CONVERSATION IS AND JUST TO LET YOU KNOW THIS IS JUST MY THOUGHTS. DO YOU REMEMBER WAY BACK WHEN i TALK ABOUT THE CHARACTERISTICS OF A WINE AND HOW THE BUILDING BLOCKS FORMED THE FLAVOR AROMA AND TEXTURE OF THE WINE.OTHER THAN GOING BACK TO THE SOIL,WATER AND EARTH ,WILL START AT CHARACTERISTICS,AND HOW THE YEAST PLAYS A VITAL ROLE AND THAT KNOW THE CHARACTERISTIC OF THE WINE YOUR GOING TO PRODUCE IS VITAL.

chardonnay grape is very neutral,with many of the flavors commonly associated with the grape being derived from such influences as earth and oak.it is vinified in many different styles ,from the lean,crisply mineral wines of CHABLIS,,WITH OAK AND TROPICAL FRUIT FLAVOR.

OK,now we got the taste and flavor profile,now what............we think! you got to like that.

look at our charts,you remember them?
( ask yourself first how do i want the wine to finish out?) ok,lets say dry with oaky background early drinking,take a look at ICV-D-47..what are the properties of the yeast?----------low foaming,quick fermentation that settles out well,forms compact lees at the end of fermentation.tolerates a good range of fermentation temps,from 59 to 68 degrees and enhances mouth feel due to complex carbohydrates.malolactic fermentation proceeds well in wine made with this strain of yeast.
A GOOD CHOICE IT FITS

RED STAR.depending on your style Chardonnay..........COTES DES BLANCS,PREMIER CUVEE ARE THE BEST CHOICES..........................


COTES Des blancs ,excellent general purpose yeast for whit wines low foaming,good temp ranges and adv production.

PREMIER CUVEE..same characteristics as above but also good for stuck fermentation,
ALWAYS ASK YOURSELF FIRST WHAT STYLE WINE I'M I GOING TO MAKE BEFORE YOU PICK A YEAST THIS IS YOUR MAIN BUILDING BLOCK. this will dictate your focal point and your choice, (KNOW THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE WINE YOU ARE MAKING)

STAY TUNED............

 

[joeswine]

lavin bdx

The French say, this is the perfect answer it has a perfect fermentation kinetics at a moderate rate and temperature 64 to 86° and does not generate a lot of heat during fermentation .is highly recommended for the production of quality dry reds with alcohol toxicities at 16% , especially Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon ,with a minimum color loss and enhance flavor and aroma.

Remember we talk back that partnerships of wine how wines go well together so does the yeast it plays in all important role in The full development of the wine.. If in the beginning wine has to have body structure . It also has to have a format to develop it and this is where these comes in . N lalvin bdx is not as well-known to most of us home winemakers , but is something you should look into , especially if you like dry full-bodied red wines .

Merry Christmas to allyou, happy new year

 

[joeswine]

Yeast in the beginning

Okay, let us get started for all you beginners out there remember. I asked you to go red star and pulled on their use profile also Lalvin.

]
Let us get started , let say you want to make a citrus fruit wine . . If you look at the red star profile you will find at the Pasteur Champagne yeast is the best, lalvin, 1116 fits the best profile you want to read about these profiles . Believe me . I think you should take the time , to go online as you are now pull down to profiles that is your determining point . let us just take the 1116 for example the strain expresses the freshness of white grape varieties , such as sauvignon Blanc, chenin blanc and others . the natural fresh fruit aromas are retained longer than with other standard yeast strains fruit wines and wines made from concentrates for a nutrient balance benefit from the capacity of 1116 to adapt to difficult conditions . Highly recommended for dry wines age reds and late harvest wines restart stuck fermentation . . Okay, now you are armed, this is the beginning how to think outside the box Noah characteristics you want to make and know how to start Othe Jew read the fruit wine part that is the key. Y

 

[joeswine]

Yeast advanced winemaking

lalvin, bm45,. This drain was selective for many world-class brunello's, fermentations for its ecological characteristics. I relatively slow starter, well adapted to long maceration programs 64 /82 degree temperature range .and has high nitrogen requirements and can produce H2 h2s nutrient – starved .provides high levels ofpolysaccharides and therefore wines with increased mouth feel. It tends to bring out aromas in sangioveses described as for Jams , Rose and cherry liquors, with evident and clear notes of sweet spices, licorice and Cedar. It also is used in minimizing vegetal characteristics and can be used which are today is a blending component to increase mouth feel . With a 16% alcohol toxicity ceiling, it reliably ferments to dryness .

R

So you see, when we talk about mouth feel and talk about body structure. He comes down to the basics. The original product you started with the yeast that you apply to a bring out . It is better qualities. These characteristics that you strive for, it takes understanding in time when you get your kids or your buyer juice or you by your grapes stop and think what is it you want to achieve at the end, what qualities you want your wine and are you doing willing to do a little research to justify the means. It comes from understanding all the componentry that we work with at cellar dwellers............. there are whole world of different yeasts out there, investigate them. Do not just settle for someone for what someone wants to sell you...................... got it!

 

[Pumpkinman]

Joe, how ironic, we were just having a discussion about yeasts, I cannot agree more, take the time to inform yourself about yeasts, do the research. Lalvins website is real good, just Google the yeast that you are interested in and you will get a bunch of links.

Nice post Joe!!!

 

[joeswine]

Pumpkin man






There is more than out there . There will were being served you just have to know what you want, and find but you have to take the time to deal with it........................ Ay time you want to swap. Let me know.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Joe, I'd be happy to trade with you! Right now, the only wines that are ready to drink are the Dragon Blood, the Berry Blend Melomel aka Red Dragon, The Hard Cider is just about ready, and I have to resist the urge to drink the Amarone for another 8 months..lol
We are close enough that a bottle should get to you in 1 day.

 

[joeswine]

pumpkinman

Not a problem at all,email me with your address and I will sent of to you something different,when ever you get around to it ,you get around to it..

 

[Pumpkinman]

Joe, perfect! This is very kind of you.
I'll send you my info as soon as I get back to my office.
Thanks!