WM81 Fall 2024 Experiments

[winemaker81]

The chromatography kit arrived yesterday. I just read the instructions, and it's a bit obtuse. Or maybe it's ME that's obtuse. I haven't done a chromatography since high school or first year of college, so it wasn't making sense. Therefore a went to font of all things, sane and not: YouTube.



This guy speaks in a monotone, but his instructions are clear. After watching his video, the instructions now make sense.

I was planning on starting the test tonight, but am going to wait. I have 8 carboys that need racking, and I'm going to do that tonight. Or at least get a start on it.

 

[winemaker81]

Side note -- I fermented the Chardonnel in 2 batches with QA23 and 71B, respectively, and reserved 1.5 liters of each batch. It may not be clear in the following picture, but the QA23 is a bit darker.



Over the weekend I plan to rack both and bottle a 750 ml of each. The wine is not ready for bottling at this point, but this secures both bottles.

In May or June we'll taste test these against the blend of both batches, which will probably be bottled in March or April.

 

[winemaker81]

I just finished racking the Chardonnel and Vidal.

The Chardonnel is WAY different from what it was at pressing. The sharpness is gone and while it's still got enough bite for a white, it's not overpowering. Without testing the malic, I suspect the Lalvin 31 did its job.

The median dose of FT Blanc Soft I calculated as 15.2 g, and since I have about 11 gallons, I went with 15.6 g. Ok, let's be honest -- I got tired of frigging with trying to get the exact correct amount and decided 15.6 g is good!

I bottled a 750 ml each of the QA23 and 71B wines, and added the remainder to the homogenized blend. The final result (including the 2 bottles) is exactly 11 US gallons -- this includes extra 750 ml and 1.5 liter bottles.

Next I racked the Vidal, which was in 19, 23, and 4 liter jugs. I had exactly 15.6 g FT Blanc Soft remaining, and it went in. The wine went back into the 19 and 23 liter carboys, and there was a 750 leftover.



I had about 3/4 of a 375 ml bottle leftover from the Chardonnel and literally a splash of Vidal, so I'm drinking that now. I'm honestly surprised how good this raw wine is right now.

Note -- both wines were fermented on the skins, so they will not turn out totally clear. I'm leaning towards hitting all 4 carboys with bentonite in February to see what happens.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

Good luck with the chromatography! I too had not done one since school days until I started doing them for winemaking purposes.

It's pretty straightforward. I didn't watch your Youtube video but I am nervous about the inset picture which appearsto be dipping a capillary directly into carboy. Much safer to take a small sample in a tube/jar and dip into that, I would hate to drop one of those tiny capillaries into my carboy/keg/barrel!

Do be sure to hang it to dry in a well ventilated space - I do mine outside if at all possible. And I suggest using disposable gloves while you're handling the samples and paper (sweat contains lactic acid)

 

[Snafflebit]

One tip about the chromatography, if you don’t see any markings develop on the paper after letting it dry, heat the paper with a hair dryer.

 

[winemaker81]

@BarrelMonkey, @Snafflebit, thanks for the tips!

Given how the Chardonnel and Vidal tasted today, I'm not worried about them.

However, the Chambourcin and Chelois were both hit with K-meta when put in barrel, so they may not have completed. However, the extra 2 carboys of each have not yet received K-meta, so they may complete.

I'll find out this weekend!

 

[mainshipfred]

You really don't have to use the standards since the acids are always in the same location. Plus it will give you more room for wines to test. I can't find it but the test is not the completely accurate and there is a margin for error. The absence of a malic dot doesn't necessarily mean the fermentation is complete. I usually let it go a couple more weeks. If you put the paper in front of a light you may see a faint malic spot not noticeable otherwise.

 

[winemaker81]

This thread is WAY out of date. Hopefully I'll have time to review my notes later this week and update it properly.

An old thread on glycerin was subjected to thread necromancy, and we devolved WAY off course into MLF. I was going to make a long-winded answer there, but decided it's better here. The quote is from the other thread.

Initially I started with a liquid bacteria that really did nothing. The weather was hot and the shipper didn’t cool pack it. I think the bacteria was DOA. Then I tried Viniflora CH 35 and still nothing. That experience has made me shy away from trying it again. That was two years ago and I have been thinking of trying again. What is a good varietal candidate for MLF.

Lalvin 31 has worked for both Beth and me.

This fall I made:

• Vidal
• Chardonnel
• Chambourcin
• Chelois
• Pinot Noir buckets with Chambourcin/Chelois pomace

The first 4 are cold weather grown French-American hybrids, typically higher in acid. All were co-inoculated with Lalvin 31, and a variety of wine yeast strains. I typically divided each grape into 2 batches and ferment each with a different strain, then later combine.

I have not performed the chromatography yet. Various reasons have cropped up, a big one is wanting to do all tests at the same time. My plan is to do the following tests:

• Vidal
• Chardonnel
• Chambourcin - barrel
• Chambourcin - topup
• Chelois - barrel
• Chelois - topup
• Pinot Noir

I can get all these on 1 sheet, so I only have to conduct one test. I'm thinking at the barrel topup that will occur around 01/15/2025, we'll do it.

However -- based upon taste, the Vidal and Chardonnel completed MLF, or close enough. Both were sharp at pressing time (both whites fermented on the skins), but at the racking a few weeks later, both were VERY mellow. The Vidal was still a bit sharp, but much less than it has been. It's also dropped a fair amount of tartrate crystals, so it may be mellower now. We'll taste test at the 01/15 topup.

I screwed up with the Chambourcin and Chelois barrels, adding K-meta to both before I remembered not to. OOPS! We have 2 carboys of topup for each, which went longer without K-meta. I'm looking to see the difference in malic between each varietal's barrel and topup.


EDIT: I did not add yeast or MLB to the Pinot Noir, as each 6 US gallon bucket was added to the pomace of 300 lbs of grapes. Certainly no yeast was necessary, and I assume the MLB was active in the pomace, so no need for more of that. Especially as I did not have more MLB to add.

 

[winemaker81]

On 12/15 we racked the extra carboys of Chelois and Chambourcin. The yield on both batch was enough that in addition to the 55 liter barrels, we have two carboys of each wine. These have been untouched since 10/26/2024.

I screwed up when filling the barrels -- I added K-meta to both barrels, with MLF underway. The extra carboys received no K-meta, so I have hopes the MLF completed.

Chelois:

Carboy 1 is slightly acidic. Carboy 2 is more mellow. The barrel is more acidic than either, which makes sense since I added K-meta to it.

Today’s effort is to rack the wines off the lees AND to add finishing tannins. We have 3 different tannins, that will be used in different containers. We read the description of each tannin and decided how to use them. We racked the wine back into 19 and 12 liter carboys, a 4 liter jug, plus three 750 ml wine bottles.

The dosages are based upon the vendor recommendations, going approximately with the median dosage (half way between minimum and maximum dosages).

• barrel: Quentanin Sweet, 2.1 g
• 19 liter carboy: Tannin Estate, 5.0 g
• 12 liter carboy: Tannin Riche Extra, 1.0 g
• remainder: no finishing tannins

The plan is to taste test the 4 variations in March. The vendor docs say integration takes 6 weeks, so that should be done by the end of January, and we'll give it more time. Or ... maybe we'll do it at the February topup. Or both ...

Barrel topup was 1.0 liters.

Chambourcin:

The Chambourcin is more acidic than the Chelois. This wine was in a 19 and a 23 liter carboy. The 23 liter carboy was acidic enough that we added 1 tsp potassium carbonate to the Brute to reduce the acid. I doubt this will be enough to address the acid, but we'll see what difference it makes.

Because we lacked another free 12 liter carboy, we racked back into a 23 liter carboy, three 4 liter jugs, and four wine bottles. We did not use the Tannin Riche Extra here.

• barrel: Quentanin Sweet, 2.1 g
• 23 liter carboy: Tannin Estate, 5.5 g
• remainder: no finishing tannins

Taste testing will be concurrent with the Chelois.

We topped the barrel with 4.0 liters of wine. I must have completely misjudged the level in the barrel when filling it. I'm disappointed in myself, but the wine tasted fine, so apparently no harm done.

Next Steps:

At the January topup (weekend before or after 15th) I'll take pH readings and we'll do the acid chromatography. As noted in the last post, we'll test all at once to see what we have.

My cellar has been hovering between 55-59 F (13-15 C), and the Vidal is clearly dropping acid. I have hopes the reds will as well. I'll see it in the carboys if that happens.

I'm concerned about the acid levels of the reds. We do not want to backsweeten, but will consider a slight backsweetening if necessary. If so, we'll have to treat the wines with lysozyme because of the MLB.

Using potassium carbonate and/or calcium carbonate is another option. I've already added some K-carbonate, and in a few weeks we'll see what that tastes like.

And ... I have another test in mind. We have 2 carboys each of the whites, so I'm leaning towards treating one of each batch with bentonite. I'd like to see if it has any effect on color or clarity, and on aroma and flavor. If it's positive, we'll treat the second carboys as well.