WineXpert Fwk verse winexpert

[oppyland]

Though I really understand this argument, I still believe that food should be safe regardless of size of the company producing them.

Fine - buy somewhere else. Easy peasy.

 

[Brian55]

I'm not sure if you are sarcastic now, it hardly rocket science to print a label online in production.

Partially. It's obviously easy to print and apply labels. It's what you put on them and how that affects you legally that I would be concerned with.

 

[oppyland]

Interesting point, but raw chicken also has the same warnings and still required to have ingredient statements.

And that's why you can't get chicken from anything but a giant corporation and it tastes like cardboard. "Safer" isn't always better.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Fine - buy somewhere else. Easy peasy.

That’s one way of approaching it. But let’s pray someone with a serious allergy doesn’t get hurt because the product was processed in a facility or by a worker that handles nuts or gluten products! I feel a safer and more conscientious approach is to add an Ingredient and allergen statement. But, I guess that’s for FWK to weigh out.

 

[Swedeman]

Partially. It's obviously easy to print and apply labels. It's what you put on them and how that affects you legally that I would be concerned with.

Collecting and putting together an ingredients list and mark the ones that are allergens, if any, is a quickly done on a simple product as a wine kit.

 

[oppyland]

That’s one way of approaching it. But let’s pray someone with a serious allergy doesn’t get hurt because the product was processed in a facility or by a worker that handles nuts or gluten products! I feel a safer and more conscientious approach is to add an Ingredient and allergen statement. But, I guess that’s for FWK to weigh out.

I can tell you're in the industry - that's exactly how I would expect you to feel. I'm not saying that's wrong, but the "if we could save one person from XXX malady" is why companies have huge legal departments and make products for the least common denominator. I don't work in the food industry (probably obvious ) and I like to raise a lot of my own food. To me, those labels are there for one primary purpose - to not get sued.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Btw, I feel all/every wine kit should require an ingredient and allergy statement, not just FWK. However, since their product is not pasteurized, I would feel better if they did (but that’s just me)

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

I can tell you're in the industry - that's exactly how I would expect you to feel. I'm not saying that's wrong, but the "if we could save one person from XXX malady" is why companies have huge legal departments and make products for the least common denominator. I don't work in the food industry (probably obvious ) and I like to raise a lot of my own food. To me, those labels are there for one primary purpose - to not get sued.

Actually, that may be partially accurate but I can tell you that most retail consumers are now looking at labels, ingredient statements before they put an item in their shopping cart. Go to a local grocery store and just watch people. 20 years ago, there were very few allergen concerns, now there are so many more. True story! A major school district in the US will not buy any product that contains cinnamon…Cinnamon is now considered a potential allergen.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

"if we could save one person from XXX malady" is why companies have huge legal departments

This is because all it takes is one hellbent consumer to file a lawsuit and potentially destroy a company (financially or their reputation)! It happens all the time, especially around allergens these days.

 

[oppyland]

Actually, that may be partially accurate but I can tell you that most retail consumers are now looking at labels, ingredient statements before they put an item in their shopping cart. Go to a local grocery store and just watch people. 20 years ago, there were very few allergen concerns, now there are so many more. True story! A major school district in the US will not buy any product that contains cinnamon…Cinnamon is now considered a potential allergen.

I'm sure you're correct. I'm certainly exaggerating, but it seems like everything is an allergen nowadays.

One more point about labeling - @Swedeman suggested that ingredients lists and allergen statements are easy, and I'm sure they are when it's being done at a food company with an in-house lab, corporate counsel, a marketing departments, chemists, biologists, etc. Not so easy when you're a one guy shop.

 

[oppyland]

This is because all it takes is one hellbent consumer to file a lawsuit and potentially destroy a company (financially or their reputation)! It happens all the time, especially around allergens these days.

For sure! People sue for any and everything. I blame lawyers.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

I'm sure you're correct. I'm certainly exagerating, but it seems like everything is an allergen nowadays.

One more point about labeling - @Swedeman suggested that ingredients lists and allergen statements are easy, and I'm sure they are when it's being done at a food company with an in-house lab, corporate counsel, a marketing departments, chemists, biologists, etc. Not so easy when you're a one guy shop.

Actually it is very easy, there are 3rd party companies that’s all they do. And cost is insignificant for the most part.

 

[oppyland]

Actually it is very easy, there are 3rd party companies that’s all they do. And cost is insignificant for the most part.

What's the cost per test? I'm assuming they'd need to do it for every product and variation. And they'd need to do it every time the formulation changes - annually at the very least. Then Matteo (or whoever) would have to hire a lawyer to review said testing, and someone else to write the ingredients list, nutritional and allergen statements in the correct way. I could be wrong, but when you're selling a few hundred (my guess) wine kits a year, that cost is going to be a lot more than insignificant.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

For sure! People sue for any and everything. I blame lawyers.

Lol, I’m just waiting for one of our forum lawyer friends to chime in now

 

[Vlabruz]

Thats why I was curious. My wife was reading the WE label and was shocked to see shrimp. I understand that is in the chitosan and most drops out but can it still induce an allergy for some allergic to shellfish.

Before I get hate mail thrown at me, let me just say I am a huge fan of FWK!! However, as a proponent and supporter of our Truth In Labeling laws in the US, the lack of transparency and labeling does raise a few questions for me. Especially since the bags are now coming without any vacuum seal or other protective seal under the caps. I am just saying I would like to have confidence that the product has been USDA approved, and would like to see an ingredient statement to ensure what I am consuming has no byproduct, extenders, preservatives or enhancers, at least something that tells me that I am not just drinking a “flavored Merlot fruit compote slurry” lol

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

What's the cost per test? I'm assuming they'd need to do it for every product and variation. And they'd need to do it every time the formulation changes - annually at the very least. Then Matteo (or whoever) would have to hire a lawyer to review said testing, and someone else to write the ingredients list, nutritional and allergen statements in the correct way. I could be wrong, but when you're selling a few hundred (my guess) wine kits a year, that cost is going to be a lot more than insignificant.

Matteo likely already has a lawyer on retainer, so that’s not an issue…think about how many small (way smaller than FWK) consumer companies you see out there at farmers markets etc. if cost was a barrier to entry, you wouldn’t see so many startups in the food and beverage industry

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Thats why I was curious. My wife was reading the WE label and was shocked to see shrimp. I understand that is in the chitosan and most drops out but can it still induce an allergy for some allergic to shellfish.

My friends wife is allergic to crustaceans and for that reason he uses egg whites to clear his wines

 

[Swedeman]

What's the cost per test? I'm assuming they'd need to do it for every product and variation. And they'd need to do it every time the formulation changes - annually at the very least. Then Matteo (or whoever) would have to hire a lawyer to review said testing, and someone else to write the ingredients list, nutritional and allergen statements in the correct way. I could be wrong, but when you're selling a few hundred (my guess) wine kits a year, that cost is going to be a lot more than insignificant.

You don't need to do any tests. I was recently contacted by a startup company that needed help preparing labels, I did that for free in my spare time since it doesn't take long. Admittedly only for 6 products.

Actually it is very easy, there are 3rd party companies that’s all they do.

They probably use a dedicated software, there are a few on the market, doing all the calculations for you based on your recipe.
The legal aspect should be manageable even for a small company having a narrow range of products operating on one market.

 

[oppyland]

Matteo likely already has a lawyer on retainer, so that’s not an issue…think about how many small (way smaller than FWK) consumer companies you see out there at farmers markets etc. if cost was a barrier to entry, you wouldn’t see so many startups in the food and beverage industry

You could be right. To me, if it adds cost and labeling is not required, I hope he doesn't do it.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

You could be right. To me, if it adds cost and labeling is not required, I hope he doesn't do it.

Last thought…for me it’s not whether he legally “has to” I have to assume he would have it he had to already (likely some alcohol related loophole), it’s just the “right thing to do! imo”. Give your customers peace of mind knowing what they are consuming and let them know about any potential allergens. I think it’s a better product than WE or RJS, so give me an ingredient statement validating my opinion. This approach would be very well received by consumers and align with their mission statement he shares on his videos.