WineXpert Fwk verse winexpert

[bstnh1]

What's the cost per test? I'm assuming they'd need to do it for every product and variation. And they'd need to do it every time the formulation changes - annually at the very least. Then Matteo (or whoever) would have to hire a lawyer to review said testing, and someone else to write the ingredients list, nutritional and allergen statements in the correct way. I could be wrong, but when you're selling a few hundred (my guess) wine kits a year, that cost is going to be a lot more than insignificant.

When you get into the food business, or any other business, the best thing to do is to comply with the applicable rules and regulations. If not, then you don't belong in business. You belong in jail.

 

[bstnh1]

I am going to suggest that if you really, really believe these labeling requirements do anything, that perhaps you should call and/or send them an email and suggest they add them. My guess is that due to the kits being 100% grape juice of the type indicated on the label (except for the blend kits) they aren't required to have them. More than likely their lawyer has already said this is what is required.

100%?? How do you know? And what else might be in there? Any acid added? And what's in those packets?

 

[cmason1957]

100%?? How do you know? And what else might be in there? Any acid added? And what's in those packets?

Well, I read what the guy who makes the kits said many months ago, it's 100% grape juice. The packets are explained about two (maybe three posts) above yours. Also, I will add, I specifally said that my guess is. I just really don't understand why so many believe that FWK isn't labeling it exactly as they are required to.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Well, I read what the guy who makes the kits said many months ago, it's 100% grape juice. The packets are explained about two (maybe three posts) above yours. Also, I will add, I specifally said that my guess is. I just really don't understand why so many believe that FWK isn't labeling it exactly as they are required to.

@cmason1957…that’s not it at all! We have no doubt that FWK (or any other kit mfr) is following guidelines as required! What we are pointing out is that without such things as nutritionals, ingredient or allergen callouts, we are simply taking the “word” from the mfr who obviously has a bias. With that said, I feel Matteo is an honest person as is truthful, but you cannot fault consumers for wanting to know what they are buying and consuming. Assumption is the mother of all F***ups! After all, do you not at least occasionally look at ingredients when you are purchasing food at your grocery store? I wish all kit companies would clearly state all ingredients and mention any potential allergens, that’s all. Doing so should be a “best practice” and something all mfr’s should aspire to achieve imo.

 

[bstnh1]

And I didn't have to read through posts on winemakingtalk to learn what's in this kit!

 

[Swedeman]

I just really don't understand why so many believe that FWK isn't labeling it exactly as they are required to.

Maybe because they are used to see one on WE's boxes and there is no one on FWK's boxes? In addition, if you look in post #80 in this thread it's obvious that several of the chemicals included in the kit lacks an ingredients list, for instance package D should at least be labeled "contains sulphites". The chemicals in WE's kits are all labeled with ingredients.

Anyway, I totally agrees with this:

I wish all kit companies would clearly state all ingredients and mention any potential allergens, that’s all.

Being transparent towards consumers will only benefit producers.

 

[Swedeman]

And I didn't have to read through posts on winemakingtalk to learn what's in this kit!

Brian, is that photo taken from an old kit or is that from a recent one?

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

The LD Carlson Chitosan and Kieselsol that FWK is using have some basic ingredient and allergen data on them. See pic, I would just like to see something on the Must bag and the packets as well.

 

[Sailor323]

Thats why I was curious. My wife was reading the WE label and was shocked to see shrimp. I understand that is in the chitosan and most drops out but can it still induce an allergy for some allergic to shellfish.

Chitosan poses no risk to those with shellfish allergies. Those with such allergies are allergic to the protein in shellfish, not the shells. Chitosan is made from the shells. See as well, Safety of chitosan processed wine in shrimp allergic patients (rcaap.pt)

 

[Vlabruz]

I don't but asked via email for what was in each packet and got a very complete answer. I don have that list at hand but will share if I can find it

Please do

 

[cmason1957]

I suppose I have made enough wine that I had no doubt about what was in each packet. It wasn't a mystery to me.

 

[bstnh1]

Brian, is that photo taken from an old kit or is that from a recent one?

Not sure. It's not a it I have. It's a photo I found online.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

We had a meeting today on this subject, and we decided the criticisms and concerns voiced here were very constructive. Thanks for the advice and for the view point of the winemaker. We will update our instructions to list everything in every add pack, update packet labels with more info, add a UPC barcode, nutritional information and, note allergens. All of this makes sense from the maker's perspective. We strongly agree with holding true with transparency and we appreciate your loyalty and feedback. It is much appreciated.
Matteo

 

[Vlabruz]

We had a meeting today on this subject, and we decided the criticisms and concerns voiced here were very constructive. Thanks for the advice and for the view point of the winemaker. We will update our instructions to list everything in every add pack, update packet labels with more info, add a UPC barcode, nutritional information and, note allergens. All of this makes sense from the maker's perspective. We strongly agree with holding true with transparency and we appreciate your loyalty and feedback. It is much appreciated.
Matteo

Much respect. I didnt realize this would bring up such a strong discussion.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

We listen to you. It’s abundantly clear that that this matters.

Much respect. I didnt realize this would bring up such a strong discussion.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Wow!!! I Totally appreciate you listening and doing this Matteo!! I am very impressed and it speaks volumes to us consumers!!! I know that these “tweaks” will serve the FWK brand well and further set you apart from others. Bravo to you and the FWK team! You will have my business exclusively going forward!!

 

[oppyland]

We listen to you. It’s abundantly clear that that this matters.

I'm glad you listen. Frankly, it didn't matter to me in the least. If you jack up your prices because of it, that would matter to me.

 

[cmason1957]

We listen to you. It’s abundantly clear that that this matters.

I'm glad you listen, doesn't matter to me at all. I never look at those labels and think they are a waste of money and time. Some folks think they provide something.

 

[Old Corker]

I can’t help but feel that there is a little ‘no good deed goes unpunished‘ going on here. @Matteo_Lahm has been over the top transparent with us about what he is trying to do with his products and his company. When you wear her heart on your sleeve like that any detail overlooked is open to criticism. While I think the points made by @Swedeman and @She’sgonnakillme are valid and respectfully delivered, I just imagine Matteo is feeling a little battered by the exchange. With that, I respefully steel words from @cmason1957 and add my guess is that WE and RJS would not have been as gracious as Matteo is being about it.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

I can understand why a few of you feel that way, but you are coming from a position of likely many many years experience and probably are very advanced in your wine expertise. Not all of the FWK consumers (likely not that many actually) will have your knowledge. For those consumers, these small things will be a welcome addition and will give many peace of mind about what is in the product (specifically the must pouch). And keep in mind most kit consumers are not on this forum so do not have the insights you all enjoy. Matteo is a business owner that’s trying to grow a brand, these are common growing pains that will only help him succeed to higher levels imo. With that said, time for me to go start another Forte Bordeaux