WineXpert Fwk verse winexpert

[cmason1957]

While I totally respect Tom V, I believe he is employed by a kit wine company or at least compensated, so perhaps there is a bit of bias?

I believe Tim V. is no longer employed by a kit wine company, but he certainly was at the time the above quotes were made. Probably even more than employed by them, he was considered by many to be the Father (or at least one of the Fathers) of the modern wine kits. I also tend to believe that in higher end wines, they do not use much in the way of heat pasteurization to produce wines.

I don't know anything about the lower end of the spectrum, but I would think that they do something to decrease the amount of liquid that must be stored to produce fresh wine in California out of season.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Then there’s something wrong in the structure and what price kits are you referring to?

I only make premium kits, but noticed the same in my buddies WE Classic kits as well. I have noticed it in both the old and new WE versions as well.

 

[bstnh1]

I believe Tim V. is no longer employed by a kit wine company, but he certainly was at the time the above quotes were made. Probably even more than employed by them, he was considered by many to be the Father (or at least one of the Fathers) of the modern wine kits. I also tend to believe that in higher end wines, they do not use much in the way of heat pasteurization to produce wines.

I don't know anything about the lower end of the spectrum, but I would think that they do something to decrease the amount of liquid that must be stored to produce fresh wine in California out of season.

Tim is/was associated with Master Vintner after he left WE. He was pushing kits on Midwest Supplies and Northernbrewer sites. He also has a facebook page "Tim Vandergrift Consulting and Communications". Not sure what that's all about.

 

[winemaker81]

I only make premium kits, but noticed the same in my buddies WE Classic kits as well. I have noticed it in both the old and new WE versions as well.

This is the first report I've seen of KWT in the new WE formulation. I'm disappointed.

I made 2 new formulation kits (Reserve Cab Sauv, Chardonnay) and both came out great, tasting very good at bottling (7 months). I had hopes WE had upgraded their kits to a new high.

I had inconsistent results in the WE LE18 Corazon -- some bottles were really good, other had serious KWT. I chalked it up to bottling too quickly, but since it was a premium kit, I expected better from it.

 

[Swedeman]

I had inconsistent results in the WE LE18 Corazon -- some bottles were really good, other had serious KWT.

Now that's strange. Were all bottles treated the same way? BTW I was/am very happy with the Corazon.

 

[winemaker81]

Now that's strange. Were all bottles treated the same way? BTW I was/am very happy with the Corazon.

I used the same process I've used for decades -- the bottles were cleaned, visually inspected before storage, and visually inspected before filling. Some bottles had KWT, others were fantastic. That wine is my biggest disappointment in years.

 

[bstnh1]

I used the same process I've used for decades -- the bottles were cleaned, visually inspected before storage, and visually inspected before filling. Some bottles had KWT, others were fantastic. That wine is my biggest disappointment in years.

That leaves only one variable - the guy drinking the wine!

 

[oppyland]

A quote from Tim Vandergrift:
"If you read between the lines, an awful lot of commercial wine is made exactly like wine kits, with the same raw materials, and the same techniques. That's why I find it consistently funny when anyone says they don't like 'kit' wine—they're usually already drinking it, but paying way more from a commercial source!"

This seems like a reasonable statement to me. We have a small winery near where I live, and I guarantee he's buying concentrate and fermenting pretty much the same as us hobbiests, but on a larger scale.

 

[Mekpdue]

We have a small winery near where I live, and I guarantee he's buying concentrate and fermenting pretty much the same as us hobbiests, but on a larger scale.

Having just begun making kit wines and some wine from juice, I am really curious how small wineries make all their offerings. I know they have to buy juice from somewhere...and grapes (if they do & when in season), as there isn't anyone growing quality Cabernet Sauvignon or Merlot grapes around me (northern Ohio). The juice is more than likely crushed and barreled and delivered...can they be shipped in truck/tanks to Ohio and delivered to local wineries?

Anyway, I also have a small winery around me. They grow some Frontenac, Traminette, La Crescent, and Frontenac Gris, but these are used as blenders for the main varietal wines. That said, I've seen many 6 gal wine kits on skids in the winery, and I would love to know how they are used.

 

[winemaker81]

This seems like a reasonable statement to me. We have a small winery near where I live, and I guarantee he's buying concentrate and fermenting pretty much the same as us hobbiests, but on a larger scale.

I see your point, but a key difference is the concentrate. Commercial concentrate needs refrigeration (AFAIK), so it's not the same thing as shelf-stable kits. Knowing a bit about Pasteurization, I suspect there is a key difference in quality.

Having just begun making kit wines and some wine from juice, I am really curious how small wineries make all their offerings. I know they have to buy juice from somewhere...and grapes (if they do & when in season), as there isn't anyone growing quality Cabernet Sauvignon or Merlot grapes around me (northern Ohio). The juice is more than likely crushed and barreled and delivered...can they be shipped in truck/tanks to Ohio and delivered to local wineries?

A surprising number of wineries in eastern NC either have vineyards in the western part of the state, or purchase from vineyards located in the west.

Eastern NC is Scuppernong/Muscadine country. Where I live (south of Raleigh), native grapes and hybrids produced out of FL grow. French-American hybrids and Vinifera do not. Forty miles north-west of me? F-A hybrids will grow, but wineries south and east of Raleigh are only growing native grapes & FL hybrids.

I don't think of wine and Florida in the same sentence, but apparently the U of FL has a really good research program and center. Cool!

To cover all demographics, the eastern NC wineries make sweet(-ish) Muscadine and dry Vinifera. I assume OH wineries are doing something similar.

 

[oppyland]

Having just begun making kit wines and some wine from juice, I am really curious how small wineries make all their offerings. I know they have to buy juice from somewhere...and grapes (if they do & when in season), as there isn't anyone growing quality Cabernet Sauvignon or Merlot grapes around me (northern Ohio). The juice is more than likely crushed and barreled and delivered...can they be shipped in truck/tanks to Ohio and delivered to local wineries?

Anyway, I also have a small winery around me. They grow some Frontenac, Traminette, La Crescent, and Frontenac Gris, but these are used as blenders for the main varietal wines. That said, I've seen many 6 gal wine kits on skids in the winery, and I would love to know how they are used.

There are some grapes being grown around here, but of course the climate isn't ideal for all types. The wineries in this area are importing grapes and/or juice to make most of their wines. I know Wollersheim (one of the larger and more well-known wineries in Wisconsin) buys tanker loads of juice directly from processors.

I see your point, but a key difference is the concentrate. Commercial concentrate needs refrigeration (AFAIK), so it's not the same thing as shelf-stable kits. Knowing a bit about Pasteurization, I suspect there is a key difference in quality.

Yeah, you're probably right. I imagine this is a bit volume-dependent as well.

 

[Trumpet32]

I was hoping for some input. I made a FWK Syrah. It turned out perfectly and tastes delish. Along with bottling it by itself, I will be blending it with my Chambourcin. It is aging in a carboy. I wanted to try a white FWK kit and settled on a Sauvignon Blanc. I followed the instructions to the letter. It is settling nicely and the carbon black color is clearing. Here are the tasting notes on the description for the SB. "The kit makes a light to medium body white wine with citrus flavors of lime and grapefruit, medium acidity and a slight residual sweetness. Enjoy this refreshing white wine with a peach and passion fruit bouquet, a round fruit forward flavor and smooth finish." Unfortunately, I am not tasting any citrus or grapefruit flavors. My final SG was .998. So I am getting the sweet taste but nothing else. After the 14 days in the bucket, snapped shut with an airlock, I transferred/degassed it to a carboy via my All In One Wine Pump. I am wondering if anyone else is having the same light aroma, hardly any taste, to this wine.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

I was hoping for some input. I made a FWK Syrah. It turned out perfectly and tastes delish. Along with bottling it by itself, I will be blending it with my Chambourcin. It is aging in a carboy. I wanted to try a white FWK kit and settled on a Sauvignon Blanc. I followed the instructions to the letter. It is settling nicely and the carbon black color is clearing. Here are the tasting notes on the description for the SB. "The kit makes a light to medium body white wine with citrus flavors of lime and grapefruit, medium acidity and a slight residual sweetness. Enjoy this refreshing white wine with a peach and passion fruit bouquet, a round fruit forward flavor and smooth finish." Unfortunately, I am not tasting any citrus or grapefruit flavors. My final SG was .998. So I am getting the sweet taste but nothing else. After the 14 days in the bucket, snapped shut with an airlock, I transferred/degassed it to a carboy via my All In One Wine Pump. I am wondering if anyone else is having the same light aroma, hardly any taste, to this wine.

It needs time. When Wine is young, less complex flavors and aromas dominate. It has to age a bit for the full character become through. The nose on young wine is typically boring and one dimensional.
Matteo

 

[Trumpet32]

It needs time. When Wine is young, less complex flavors and aromas dominate. It has to age a bit for the full character become through. The nose on young wine is typically boring and one dimensional.
Matteo

I trust you Matteo!!!! I am the president of Missouri Winemaking Society and will be giving a presentation on kit wines in August. There are 4 presenters and 3 of us, on my recommendation, used FWK. The other kits are Wineexpert and Cru Select. I personally am comparing 3 Sauvignon Blanc kits. FWK, Wineexpert and Cru Select.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

I trust you Matteo!!!! I am the president of Missouri Winemaking Society and will be giving a presentation on kit wines in August. There are 4 presenters and 3 of us, on my recommendation, used FWK. The other kits are Wineexpert and Cru Select. I personally am comparing 3 Sauvignon Blanc kits. FWK, Wineexpert and Cru Select.

That’s awesome! We always say, the proof is in the pudding. Objective comparison is paramount and the pathway to excellence. I look forward to your assessment.

 

[Old Corker]

I trust you Matteo!!!! I am the president of Missouri Winemaking Society and will be giving a presentation on kit wines in August. There are 4 presenters and 3 of us, on my recommendation, used FWK. The other kits are Wineexpert and Cru Select. I personally am comparing 3 Sauvignon Blanc kits. FWK, Wineexpert and Cru Select.

That sound awesome. Would love to hear the results after your August comparison.

 

[szap]

I trust you Matteo!!!! I am the president of Missouri Winemaking Society and will be giving a presentation on kit wines in August. There are 4 presenters and 3 of us, on my recommendation, used FWK. The other kits are Wineexpert and Cru Select. I personally am comparing 3 Sauvignon Blanc kits. FWK, Wineexpert and Cru Select.

Where are you at in Missouri? Did not know that there was a Winemaking Society. I am strictly a kit winemaker but I make a lot of them.

 

[lisanordmann]

Where are you at in Missouri? Did not know that there was a Winemaking Society. I am strictly a kit winemaker but I make a lot of them.

I am located in the St. Louis area. We meet the 3rd Thursday of the month. You can check us out at www.mowinemakers.org.

 

[cmason1957]

Where are you at in Missouri? Did not know that there was a Winemaking Society. I am strictly a kit winemaker but I make a lot of them.

There is also a Missouri Valley Wine Society which meets in Warrenton, Mo.

 

[szap]

Where are you at in Missouri? Did not know that there was a Winemaking Society. I am strictly a kit winemaker but I make a lot of them.